TheSamba.com :: View topic - 1600 dp in a 65 bug that wont stay running

Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:12 pm

So while starting my bug I turn the key over an it makes a clicking noise usually a few times before it turns over then it will sound like it wants to start , but will die. I have tons of gas in the bug , gas in filter clear even , tested the starter , tested the wires to the starter an ignition , drained the float on the carb.
What else can I do ? Any info or help , ideas with whats wrong , things to try ,
an everything else. Thanks

Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:26 pm

May be the fuel mixture is way off. Probably has a vacuum leak at the head or manifold.

Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:59 pm

I got the bug to start and run , still makes the clicking nosiness's while Turing the key over , idles rough an dies after running for a few minutes or when I pot it out of gear at a stop light ? Any ideas maybe still the vacuum leak or maybe something else now that she runs and drives kind of. The motor has tons of power too , the heads look nice an clean under the valve cover.

( I got it to start / run again buy switching the wires on the ignition if anyone wanted to know )

Sat Sep 06, 2014 12:24 am

Josh,

1. Clicking noises

If the starter clicks but sometimes does not turn the engine over, there are a number of possibilities.

a. Battery not fully charged, so it wont always throw the starter cog out to connect to the flywheel.

b. "start" position of the electrical section of the key switch is worn - the electrical section can be replaced if needed. The test for this is to put the car in neutral, hand brake on hard, and get under the car on the right side just in front of the rear wheel where you can see the starter motor, and jump the small wire on the solenoid to the large wire there (this is what the key does). If the starter now reliably spins the engine, then the KEY electrical section is suspect. If there is no change - the solenoid sometimes just clicks, then the SOLENOID on the starter is suspect. If the solenoid is throwing the starter cog out every time but sometimes the starter makes a grinding noise when turning the engine over, then the STARTER is suspect (brushes maybe).

2. Wont run right - stalling and such.

Assuming you have the spark plug wired correctly, and they are all firing OK, then it's usually a fuel, air leak, or carb adjustment problem.

a. Check the fuel pump - remove the inlet line from the carb top and place in a bottle. get a friend to crank the engine for a few seconds (it might actually start on the fuel in the float bowl so he has to be ready to switch it off immediately) - you should see a nice strong squirt-squirt into the bottle - the pump works off the cam shaft so squirts every second revolution. if it squirts OK, the pump is fine.

b. Take the top off the carb and see if the float bowl level is OK - it should be about 3/4 inch below the lip of the bowl, with the float floating freely. The small plastic U shaped float pin retainer MUST have the bend towards the side of the bowl - not the float, otherwise the float might jam and allow the carb to flood. If the level is high, the needle valve in the carb top is suspect.

c. If that's OK, then check for air leaks - with the engine idling, squirt WD40 or similar (NOT carb cleaner - some of them have no "fuel" in them for this test) at the throttle shaft - both sides, and listen for an increase in engine revs. An unlit propane torch can be used for this test too. If you get any increase, there is an air leak there. Same for the inlet manifold rubber boots and the manifold to head joints.

d. Check the idle jet - swap the two brass jets (idle and power jets) in the right side and see if the engine runs any better at idle/low rpms. They are different sizes but that wont matter for this test. If it idles/runs better, the real idle jet (the one sitting in a protrusion heading to the bottom of the carb - sometimes angled) is blocked or partly blocked. An overnight soak in carb cleaner (a quick spray wont work) and blow the passages out with compressed air or WD40 using the little straw to get real close, will usually do it.

e. Carb adjusted correctly? The fast idle screw which sits on the stepped cam must touch the bottom of the stepped cam and then 1/4 turn more and dont touch it again - that sets the throttle butterfly open .004 inches so you get a good idle airflow past the idle port in the side of the throat. Then the Bypass screw (large one left side) is used to set the idle speed, and the small Volume screw is used to set the idle mixture - set this for fastest idle speed then screw it in a fraction until the revs JUST start to drop, then reset the idle speed with the bypass screw.

Hope that helps.

Sat Sep 06, 2014 12:47 pm

That was very helpful thank you for posting it for me to read an have a list to help me narrow things down.The clicking noise id due to cheap ignition might try to just install a push button.
The carburetor is definitely the idle problem as well , probably needs replaced or rebuilt , should I get a different carburetor like a 32 pict or something any suggestions ?

Sun Sep 07, 2014 11:12 pm

joshuabiles wrote: That was very helpful thank you for posting it for me to read an have a list to help me narrow things down.The clicking noise id due to cheap ignition might try to just install a push button.
The carburetor is definitely the idle problem as well , probably needs replaced or rebuilt , should I get a different carburetor like a 32 pict or something any suggestions ?

The 32 pict carb is for the type3 cars - fastback etc.

The carbs which will work on your engine are.

34PICT/3 - the "correct" carb for the 1600 twin port engine, and still available new, although the quality is not always the best. This carb will sit straight on the twin port 1600 manifold. It has a 26mm throat.

The H30/31, 31PICT/3, 30PICT/3, 30PICT/2, 30PICT/1 and the 28 series carbs all use a slightly smaller manifold flange - to suit the single port engines. You can use one of these smaller carbs on a 1600 twin port engine, but they need a 30/34 adapter plate.

The H30/31 is almost the same size internally as the 34 (25.5mm throat), so it's the closest fit airflow-wise. They usually come with very lean jetting (an emissions thing) which makes them hard to tune and hard to keep in tune. Some re-jetting will help that problem. They also have a low vacuum signal so wont always pull in all the vacuum advance on vacuum distributors. If you use a 009, that's not an issue, but of course the 009 is never ideal for a road car either, since they can't sense throttle position, only rpms. The H30/31 is available new.

The 30PICT/3 and 30PICT/2 will work on a 1600 engine just fine, with the loss of a few hp at the top end, as they have slightly smaller throats (24mm). A small amount of rejetting might be needed for the higher airflow of the 1600 tp engine.

The 31PICT/3 was used on 1300tp engine - very popular outside the USA. They will work fine with a 1600 engine too, but with a slight loss of hp at the top end (slightly smaller throat than the 34PICT at 25.5mm). Once again, some small jetting changes might be needed if used on a 1600tp engine.

The 30PICT/1 comes in two forms - the early version without a power jet, and the later version with a power jet. The later version will work OK on a 1600tp, with performance similar to the 30PICT/2. The 30PICT/1 without power jet should not be used on a 1600 - it' works ok on 1300s but not so well on larger engine sizes. The 30PICT/1 is available new (hopefully WITH a power jet).

The 28 series cars were designed for the 1200 engine. They will run on a 1600, but with poor hp as they will run out of breath at medium/higher speeds - they have a small throat (22.5mm).

Hope that helps.