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DeadSetMonkey Mon Sep 08, 2014 2:40 pm

I have read most everything I can find in the threads about mounting up jump seat brackets into a Westfalia. Lots of great info/guidance in the threads. :P I think I have nearly everything I need to mount mine up..

My goal is to have a passenger side jump seat in my syncro westy..
same as this:


and this:




I have: (numbers reference to picture above):
1. Jump Seat itself (nicely recovered with sewfine materials... but mine has a broken little lever [#11], :cry: )
2. Passenger side bracket - #6
3. Passenger side seat belt brackets (#27A)
4. I even have a tray (#31)

I DO NOT have #7, #7A, or #7B
Any advice about how to replace these reinforcing plates?
These parts are NLA.
The OEM bits must have been threaded?
As there are no nuts inside the battery compartment area on the diagram?
What is a convenient DIY solution?
I assume some sort of bar stock, with holes drilled into it, and a trip to BigBox store for some stainless hardware?

Also
I DO NOT have #2, #3, #4, or #14.
But, I do have this:

Anyone with experience welding this in?

I see lots of great diagrams in the threads.
Anyone able to feed me actual measurements?
Where on the battery box to drill?
Where on the floor to weld?
Or, is it best to just eyeball it all, measure twice, drill/weld once...
Tolerances are high enough to allow for a little wiggle room with actual placement?

Thanks!

madspaniard Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:52 pm

I think your missing parts #7, 7A and 7B are the backing plates with welded nuts that go on the other side of the van's metal: inside the battery box and in the wheel well. You can easily fab some flat metal plates, drill the appropriate holes and use SS washers and nuts.

For parts #2, 3, 4 I welded nuts of similar size. Part #14 I was able to buy at dealership some 3-4 years ago, you can find something similar at your hardware store, it is nothing but a small black plastic cap for the metal pegs at the bottom of the seat frame.

I think you already have all you need to get this project off the ground, don't use measurements given by anybody, maybe you can use somebosy's measurements for the bracket but I would recomend you measure your own and go with it, get some help, put the seat with the bracket where you want it to go, make sure you have no interferences, make sure the jumpseat lines up more or less with the front passenger seat, no obstructions on the hallway between front seat and the sliding door closes properly, mark and drill!!

hdenter Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:37 pm

I read in one of the threads on this topic that you should remove the vent tank in the wheel well first so that you don't accidently drill into it. I'll be doing this mod soon myself.

Hans

hans j Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:41 pm

Nice tip! I plan on doing this soon too with a carat interior in my sunroof van. I'll probably use riv-nuts for the seat backs. and just weld in some DOM tubing I have on the floor.

dart330 Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:15 pm

Part #11 is available here for $50.
http://www.worldimpex.com/parts/genuine-part-lever_3672005.html

madspaniard Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:27 pm

Well, you actually have to loosen up and/or move away the expansion tank anyway in order to install the jumpseat bracket properly.

syncrodoka Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:11 pm

There are only 2 upper mount brackets that you need.
The inboard jumpseat mount reinforcement plate has the nuts welded to it and the plate is welded to the side of the battery box and the back face that the jumpseat bracket attaches to. I don't think that just drilling holes and through bolting is a safe way to mount the seat even though there are many here that have done just that as it isn't a heavy gauge metal.

The outboard bracket is L shaped and is welded to the jumpseat bracket face and the upper face that the seat belt anchor is attached to.
If you cannot source original brackets from a donor I suggest that you make some brackets from 1/8" steel and weld them in similar to the original to reduce the chances of them pulling out in case of impact.

I don't particularly agree with the aftermarket lower mounts as they are just mounted to the floor and it isn't very thick gauge at all(about 1MM thick). The factory brackets have several welds holding the mount in place to dissipate the load.


I have seen a van that was hit pretty hard and the factory welded in mounts were partially ripped out. Added mounts not properly reinforced wouldn't have stood a chance in holding the passenger in the seat from becoming a moving object in the vehicle.

DeadSetMonkey Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:37 pm

madspaniard wrote: Well, you actually have to loosen up and/or move away the expansion tank anyway in order to install the jumpseat bracket properly.

not for a syncro, right?

madspaniard Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:07 pm

Good question, I was speaking for 2WD vans. I know where the syncro fuel tank is located but no idea where the syncro evap tanks are located. Bottom line is you need to access the wheel well area to install the jumpseat bracket so if you have an evap tank there you will need to work around that.

1vw4x4 Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:34 pm

You are right on the money! Press nuts, and alike have no place in this project. These seats have to be able to withstand a major crash. VW Welded in extra plating to spread the load, increasing strength. This is not for fun. If these seats should come loose in a crash, and someone
gets hurt, the lawyers would have a few extra years of retirement payed for.




syncrodoka wrote: There are only 2 upper mount brackets that you need.
The inboard jumpseat mount reinforcement plate has the nuts welded to it and the plate is welded to the side of the battery box and the back face that the jumpseat bracket attaches to. I don't think that just drilling holes and through bolting is a safe way to mount the seat even though there are many here that have done just that as it isn't a heavy gauge metal.

The outboard bracket is L shaped and is welded to the jumpseat bracket face and the upper face that the seat belt anchor is attached to.
If you cannot source original brackets from a donor I suggest that you make some brackets from 1/8" steel and weld them in similar to the original to reduce the chances of them pulling out in case of impact.

I don't particularly agree with the aftermarket lower mounts as they are just mounted to the floor and it isn't very thick gauge at all(about 1MM thick). The factory brackets have several welds holding the mount in place to dissipate the load.


I have seen a van that was hit pretty hard and the factory welded in mounts were partially ripped out. Added mounts not properly reinforced wouldn't have stood a chance in holding the passenger in the seat from becoming a moving object in the vehicle.

madspaniard Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:01 am

Well, these seats will come loose in a crash, have you seen how they are mounted from factory? The leg pegs don't lock in the floor holes, they just sit in place, the weight of your ass presses down the seat into the floor holes. It wouldn't take much force in a crash with minimal upward movement to dislodge the jumpseat with your ass strapped to it. You only have one single locking point to the jumpseat bracket and it is not the best locking mechanism ever made plus the metal the jumpseat bracket attaches to seems to be as thin as the floor.

syncrodoka Tue Sep 09, 2014 6:13 am

The van that I saw that had the factory mounts damaged still had the jumpseat in place.
I will bow out of this discussion now.

DeadSetMonkey Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:56 am

dart330 wrote: Part #11 is available here for $50.
http://www.worldimpex.com/parts/genuine-part-lever_3672005.html

anyone ever order from one of these spots?
seems a bit shady? or maybe its all legit?
there are a few online, international, parts suppliers?
i always wonder what the quality/accuracy of the order would be?
maybe i am being paranoid?

MarkWard Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:48 am

I have never ordered from worldimpex, but I come across them searching part numbers. My belief is that if the part is listed available from them, you can still get it through the dealer network. I don't get the impression they have a warehouse like World Pac or IMC has. We have tried to get an occasional part from them that appears available on their website, but end up not being available. The last item we were looking for was a cap for the overflow tank on the wbx vanagon. No one had them at the time. Just the tanks were available.

IdahoDoug Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:08 pm

Ive looked over the jump seat mounts and disagree your ass holds them in place. Mine are stout, cannot even budge when empty, and seem well designed.

1vw4x4 Tue Sep 09, 2014 6:13 pm

Sorry but theirs not way the DOT would allow a seat that only your
weight holds them to the floor. I've never seen one wrecked, but If
for any reason these seats would dislodge VW would have hell to pay....
therefore its not going to happen. Your totally wrong on this one.



madspaniard wrote: Well, these seats will come loose in a crash, have you seen how they are mounted from factory? The leg pegs don't lock in the floor holes, they just sit in place, the weight of your ass presses down the seat into the floor holes. It wouldn't take much force in a crash with minimal upward movement to dislodge the jumpseat with your ass strapped to it. You only have one single locking point to the jumpseat bracket and it is not the best locking mechanism ever made plus the metal the jumpseat bracket attaches to seems to be as thin as the floor.

madspaniard Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:25 pm

I've been known to be wrong many times and I'm aware they had to go thru some sort of testing or certification before starting production. I'm just going with what I'm seeing or feeling. The seat only locks in place at one spot. I would be interested in seeing a modern crash test done with a dummy strapped to a jumpseat under different crash conditions, just out of curiosity. When you compare how this jumpseat is mounted versus other jumpseats or even the back and middle benches found in Vanagons you can almost guess it would not stand the same forces applied to them. Again, just going with my own thoughts and observations.

By the way, the same lawyers you mention above would also have a field day if they find out you, and not the factory, modified your van by welding those plates you cut out from a donor van and adding a jumpseat. Lawyer up.

IdahoDoug Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:39 pm

I think the misnomer here is that the seats latch into place with one point, seeming to make it not sturdy. What needs to be clear is that the seat structure itself becomes one with the van's structure when that point is latched. If the latch does not fail - and it is very thick - the other two points are effectively trapped into the reinforced holes in the floor. And the latch is designed to handle collision forces, so its properly designed.

An easy analogy could be used in the front doors. They are also mounted with 3 points - a standard engineering triangle - and can handle a tremendous impact directly from a vehicle weighing many tons. If any of the two door hinges or the latch in the B pillar fails, the whole door becomes useless as protection as it would pivot out of the way of a vehicle crushing into it.

So, it's a well researched and designed setup. Personally, I like it and have been amused with its simplicity and elegance since I got my Weekender. Easy to pop the seats in or out long before that became a minivan fad.

DougM

madspaniard Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:47 pm

Yes, I guess you are right, I should have married you.

IdahoDoug Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:50 pm

Heh, sorry if that sounded directed at you - did not think that way when I was writing it if that helps/matters. Wanted to inform, and all that sorta rot. I'm a bit of a safety nut, I confess.

My one complaint about the jump seats is that they are SO HEAVY! Holy crap. My LandCruiser jump seats are actually 1.5 seats per unit that you release and remove and they are not as heavy. Where the Vanagon jump seats are obviously just a single seat per unit. I have to really be careful to not trash my back while moving these things around, and they are about as bulky as can be - taking up far more space in the garage than the 6 Cruiser jump seats I have laying about.

Doug



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