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Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:03 am

My exhaust broke right at the manifold the other day. I don't want to put a lot of money into fixing it since I plan on buying either the RMW or GW stainless setup when I have the funds. Just looking for a short term fix. Are there any tapes or anything that will withstand the heat for a while? It's unbearably loud right now. Sounds like a herd of Harleys...

Any thoughts appreciated...

Thx!

Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:15 am

Looks like it's already been welded once...could be again if the tubing isn't too thin now. You'd have to take the header off. It would probably last a year or two before it cracked again. You could also cut some larger diameter pipe in half and form it to fit, and weld it on...might stop the next crack from forming there. If you do take it off get new gaskets (cheap) and definatley new hardware. If you can, spot weld it in that position before you remove it, then take it off and fill it in. less likely to crack again and fitment would be better/easier than taking it off, closing the crack and welding it.

Be honest with yourself...will you have the cash for a new stainless system in a year? If not a new header is only $120 from CIP and will work way better than bandaids.

No tape/putty will hold up long on that pipe and will definitely not be sealed.

Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:21 am

a large clamp enough to cover then some high temp exhaust putty like Thermosteel... over the clamp

http://www.jloughlin.net/loughlin-manifold-fix.html

Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:21 am

weld in a stainless flex joint: http://www.jegs.com/p/Stainless-Works/Stainless-Works-Stainless-Steel-Flex-Joints/759786/10002/-1

It will otherwise likely just break again..

Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:35 am

I'd bolt up a used pipe, myself
They are in the classifieds every now and then.
Here:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1484263

I had a crack in that exact location.. it failed again after welding.
Something tells me that the bolting up was done with uneven tension and under stress it failed early.

Some of that tape and goop stuff would work at other locations, but that bend is tough to work with.

Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:36 am

If you weld that crack, it'll crack again on either side of the repair.
Heat & the weld will do that to that probably paper thin tubing.
And the way that exhaust system vibrates, the crack will be back pretty quick.

It happened twice in the same area, 3 times isn't the answer.

Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:43 am

Access to all sides of that to grind to shiny and weld is not very good. Odds are you'd have to take the header off regardless even just to make a "proper" repair, though as stated it will crack again (Heck, it's already been repaired once).
Why not just get a good used header and toss it on?
I bet you can find that header in usable condition for $50 or so and then it will last a while, until you have the funds for the upgrade.
Check the classifieds and contact some of the big Engine conversion shops, many of them have exhausts sitting around in good condition.

Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:54 am

In all honesty.. unbolting old and replacing with old.. opens a can of worms.

I know I just recommended this exact thing.

Seldom do pipes from different installs fit well.. so you are bound to do it all and still have leaks.
Also, you are bound to have rusted fasteners.. making the task kinda unpleasant
even though you have a newer engine.

By the time you get the pipe replaced, you'll likely wish you had just bitten the bullet and installed all new pipes.

If you are planning new pipes.. Now is probably a good time to just get 'er done.

Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:30 pm

One issue here ( and not unusual ) ;

Zero denaro.
No drachmas.
No squid.
Low on Duetshmarks.
Welding is not the answer in this case.
That pipe is too far gone to be laying any heat or weld on it.
Trust me, the patch job will be short winded.

Better idea is to locates a used SET of pipes that someone hasn't hacked off of their engine for a half a yard.

Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:54 pm

I guess it kind of depends on what you are hoping to get out of it. A temporary repair can definitely be made by welding that area back together, but it won't last forever.

The longevity of the weld joint can be extended by welding 6-8 (or so...no magic number) beads perpendicular to the bead that closes up the joint. This reinforces the area which will make the patch last as long as possible. I have had patches done this way last for years since the new perpendicular beads reinforce the fatigued metal around the joint. It looks funny, but it works as a good, temporary fix.

Using a MIG welder is very helpful here since you can turn the heat down and place spot weld after spot weld layered to create one full bead (which helps keep the weld and surrounding metal as cool as possible). That old fatigued metal will burn through pretty easily, so you have to be careful.

If you find yourself up in my area, let me know and I'll weld it up for you.

Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:01 pm

I used a flex joint form a local muffler shop on my Tiico set up that are notorious for cracking and so far it has worked, looks like it might be tight to fit one there but might be something to look into.

Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:25 pm

The issue that's important here is while a mig weld would be the best, the metal would have to be half assed clean or the nozzle will be loaded up with rust splatter.
And in the process of cleaning up that probably paper thin pipe your going to have toilet paper to weld onto.
You'll be doing some air welding here.

I'd silver solder or braze that crack.
Lower heat, with less chance of the metal. fatiguing.
The silver or brass is good for 60,000 psi.
I still pretty much am sure it won't last to long in that position it's in.
Shaking & baking.

I think changing the pipes for a used set would be a more prudent move.

Labor for labor.
( as long as he has a torch handy to heat the rusted up fasteners)

Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:07 pm

Thanks for all the feedback! I appreciate it!.

I don't believe a weld would hold at this point. There's too much vibration and stress on the header which is probably why it broke in the first place. I might see what I can with a clamp and some thermosteel. That's what McGyver would probably do, right?!?

I have a couple of other small leaks that I don't want to put a lot of time or money into at this point either. I just want something to hold me over until I can decide between the GW and RMW setups. I'll research those threads...

Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:18 pm

Go to a plumbing supply store and get a hubless coupler like this,

1 1/2" is about the smallest you'll find,
Pull out the rubber..... Well Duh!
Put some muffler bandaid around the pipe, several wraps,
Install the metal portion of the coupler and add a gadzillion clamps making it tight as tight can be!

Start the engine and let it run, as it warms up the bandaid will begin to soften and turn gooey,
Tighten the clamps now!

After it's hot, shut it down, tighten the clamps and let it cool off.....

Three you now have one instant TEMPORARY exhaust pipe fix!

Dave

Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:39 pm

Yinz are looking at this all wrong.
Think zoomies.

Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:20 pm

Dave Yankovich,

Who stole the kiszka?
Oh Boy :roll:

Look at that crack.
Look where it is.
On the bend as close to the combustion head heat as you can get.
The band won't draw up as tight as you want because of that bend ,the goop you put under it to seal it will burn off fast.

Plus, and not to forget to mention that as far as welding it, that metal is shot because of that heat.
It's just in a real bad location, & this is why the first weld failed -- the metal is like hard assed crystal, & it will crack again pretty quick.

Changing the pipe will be the most rewarding job here.

Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:17 am

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but the simple fact is Brass and silver solder gets soft, or will melt at temperatures that the head pipe sees.
This is an all around BAd suggestion.

On another note, I just install a set of GoWesty SS head pipes. Lot to be said for them. P-mail if you would like first hand experience.

Terry Kay wrote: The issue that's important here is while a mig weld would be the best, the metal would have to be half assed clean or the nozzle will be loaded up with rust splatter.
And in the process of cleaning up that probably paper thin pipe your going to have toilet paper to weld onto.
You'll be doing some air welding here.

I'd silver solder or braze that crack.
Lower heat, with less chance of the metal. fatiguing.
The silver or brass is good for 60,000 psi.
I still pretty much am sure it won't last to long in that position it's in.
Shaking & baking.

I think changing the pipes for a used set would be a more prudent move.

Labor for labor.
( as long as he has a torch handy to heat the rusted up fasteners)

Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:05 am

My exhaust started giving me the same issues on my EJ22. Every couple months I would find it cracking again. Mine was not as close to the engine as yours, and not as wide a gap.

I finally bit the bullet and bought the RMW $tainless $teel system. :wink:

Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:35 pm

Syncro Jael wrote: I finally bit the bullet and bought the RMW

I really like that setup. I've been told that it doesn't fit with the syncro stock skid plate. Did you have issues or do you have non-stock?

Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:52 pm

GWTWTLW wrote: Syncro Jael wrote: I finally bit the bullet and bought the RMW

I really like that setup. I've been told that it doesn't fit with the syncro stock skid plate. Did you have issues or do you have non-stock?

Mine fits fine - all stock. You do have to remove one of the pushrod covers. I've really enjoyed the extra performance, especially on hills.