TheSamba.com :: View topic - Do I buy a Camper and convert to syncro or the other way?

Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:09 pm

Hey all. I'm finally getting to a point in life where I'm ready to get in to a vanagon project. I'm not wealthy so I'm not able to get a syncro with a camper already in it. So I realize it's a big project either way, but what's the best way to start? I want to end up with a camper (standard or aftermarket) with 4wd.
Do I get a standard camper and add syncro eventually, or start with a syncro and add a camp top?
I'm sure this has been asked a million times, but I haven't found a solid answer.
I'm hoping to start on the cheap and eventually put more time and money in to it.
Also, where the heck can I even find an affordable syncro?!

Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:18 pm

Syncro 1st

Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:35 pm

TequilaSunSet wrote: Syncro 1st X-2. This is what I did. The only way to do it. A lot less $. :D

Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:44 pm

Myself, I'm not a body and paint kind of guy.....I can weld and fabricate so....I bought a 2WD Westy and donor Syncro. In the FAQ section at the top there are bookmarked threads for these processes. In this years market which seems to be far softer than last years you just might score a nice Syncro Westy if you look hard enough. How much skill set do you have? How much time? How much money? Those are questions only you can answer.

Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:47 pm

You could always go the hi top route and just start with a tin top syncro..then add the camper interior..

Sat Sep 13, 2014 10:04 pm

The advice from Buslab when I asked that question was to start with a Westy and add the Syncro hardware.

Makes sense, that's what VW did.

Sat Sep 13, 2014 10:34 pm

I started with a tin top Syncro and got a Westy donor for the camping stuff. I would do it this way again. The reasons I prefer this are:

1. The Westy roof transplant, although a lot of work, can be done with almost no painting involved and there is nothing really painstakingly intricate - - cut, dry fit, cut more, weld. If you are off a millimeter or two, it won't show and it won't cause vibration or handling problems. Installing the syncro under carriage is a different kettle of fish.

2. Syncros, even tin tops, are more likely to have been babied or at least well-maintained. Mine was. The first owner kept it garaged at all times when not driving it. It still has the original paint at 250,000 miles and 28 years old, although it is time for a re-spray.

3. A nice Westy for adding 4WD will be pricey. A crashed donor, not so much.

4. Adding the Westy bits from a donor allows you to service them all before installing them. On an existing Westy, you're gonna have to do the service/maintenance anyway.

Having said all this, I do think that every Syncro drivetrain from a wrecked or rusted syncro should be put to good use and not wasted. It's just something calling for more precision and know-how than the other way around.

Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:53 am

I started with a nasty Tin Top Syncro ,previous 2.2 Subaru conversion and front and rear lockers and Decoupler. While the body was sound except for a Small amount of rust. I figured it needed paint anyway.
AS the previous poster said I found that grafting a Roof on was easier than adding 4WD bits ,there are a lot of details to a Syncro ,Vacuum lines and extra wires and the marker lights in a different spot and re location of the gas filler and closing the 2WD filler hole.
My pop top install was 3 weekends and is just like factory. Tin top Syncros are still reasonable and there are quite a few dead and rusted Westy's running around. Anyway you look at it ,it is hard work and depends on what skills you are best at what your donor options are.
I do not think I would have done mine if it involved installing a Syncro under a Camper. I have seen nice jobs done both ways , just don't cheese out and just cut a hole and loose your upper bunk.

my
.02

Stacy

Sun Sep 14, 2014 3:56 am

I'd say start with the tin-top Syncro because you can camp in it right away, just as is. Then there is all the general items you will need to do to get it travel ready; fuel lines, cooling system, radiator, brakes, suspension, heater box, etc. In other words plenty to do prior to pop-top or hi-top install.

Also, if you decided to sub-contract the transplant work, you may be able to find a qualified local body shop to do the roof transplant/install, providing you give them instructions on the roof switch.

Sun Sep 14, 2014 8:02 am

Howesight's ideas to me are right on, I spent last winter watching my neighbor Mike(mblotz) do the tintop to camper switch. While not easy, it is a very doable project with a high degree of reward in the end.

Sun Sep 14, 2014 9:57 am

Do you really need a syncro?

yes, you can camp in a tintop right away, but you can also in a westy.

Sun Sep 14, 2014 10:33 am

To date, I have done nine westy tops to syncro tin tops. I have also done many CHC tops to tin tops. Although the westys are time consuming, its very doable in your garage or driveway. If you do a full syncro - westy conversion
plan on about 100 hours labor. CHC on the other hand is about 20 hours.
My friend did his the other way, syncro to existing westy. Hes happy.
Obviously my choice is westy top to tin top.

Sun Sep 14, 2014 2:02 pm

I've converted a 2wd camper to syncro, I've installed a westy interior into a syncro (not including the roof, someone else did that part), and I've worked on a few vans that had westy conversions done to them. I'll just list a couple pros and cons of each.

Westy roof swap
pro:
There is only one really big part of this swap, getting the roof on.
Much less fabrication and cutting/welding

con:
The interior panels will never ever fit right.
To get the roof to look right when popped takes a TON of work.

Syncro drivetrain swap
pro:
If you do it right, which is not that difficult, even an experienced Vanagon mechanic will not be able to tell that it's not a factory Syncro.
All interior panels will fit exactly as they were installed from the factory... because they were installed by the factory.
This is an excellent time to replace all of the normal bushings and wear items in the drivetrain, steering, brakes, as well as all of the rubber hoses under the van that may look suspect

con:
A lot of cutting and welding
I would never attempt doing this without a 2 post lift, so if your working in your driveway/home garage your out of luck unless you are very clever.

The general idea of a Syncro conversion is:
Remove everything that unbolts from the underside of the van you wish to turn into a camper, You can leave the trailing arms and AC lines.
Remove everything from the underside of the donor Syncro.
Measure, re-measure, and then measure 5 more times every bracket and tab and mount on the donor syncro that is not present on the future Syncro and cut them off.
Weld all the brackets to the future Syncro then install all of the parts.
Block off the old fuel filler, weld on the new one, and move the side marker lights back just a bit.

The most difficult part of the conversion is by far the body work required to move the fuel filler from under the passenger door to behind the slider.

Everyone has their preferences and types of work they prefer doing, and this is mine.

Sun Sep 14, 2014 2:18 pm

^^one more pro to add for the syncro... you can catch air at Syncrofest in Holister and realign the spines of your passengers :D

Sun Sep 14, 2014 3:15 pm

Like DAVID said. The easiest (and probably cheapest) way to go is syncro tin top to hightop. I added the camper interior and then the hightop a year later. It's no Westy but it's a pretty functional camper..

Sun Sep 14, 2014 9:04 pm

I'd go with whatever you find a good deal on. Don't get hung up on which one is easier. I'm currently converting a westy to a syncro. Why? Because I scored a straight rust free '87 westy for 4K. So that made the decision. Keep your eyes open and eventually a deal will come around. Maybe it will be a syncro or maybe it will be a westy.

Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:52 am

I agree With Syncrozilla, Keep Your eyes open for both, and grab the best body for the swap, be it a syncro or a Westy.

But first you need to ask yourself if you want a Westy, or just any other camper. The Westy pop top was assembled at the factory, and therefor more Integrated into the body structure. For the same reason it is more complicated to swap onto another van and get it to look like a factory build.

If you dont care for that "factory look", i say go for the best syncro you can find and put on an aftermarket roof. You can even use the westy pop top roof and mount it like the Mosaik-roof from Westfalia.

Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:09 am

Don't do anything or buy anything unless you are prepared to spend $25k for the project. even DIY, you will spend that if you want to end up with a nice reliable van. I know there will be others that say it can be done cheaper and maybe it can but I bet you spend close to $25k

Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:53 am

to be clear the $25k is for both Vans and the conversion(?)

not if you already own a van and want to convert it (?)

Mon Sep 15, 2014 12:14 pm

Merian wrote: to be clear the $25k is for both Vans and the conversion(?)

not if you already own a van and want to convert it (?)

There is no UPC tag for this project. You could spend $50k just as easily doing this project. $25k is probably the bare minimum if you have nothing but a dream, a lot of time, really nice tools, and you are a good wrench, very good wrench. Keep in mind that this project usually turns into and includes full body and paint.

You are better off spending $25k-35k and buying a syncro Westy that needs stuff but I do realize that is a lot of money.