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Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:08 pm

So I just bought a 1980 Westfalia (first fuel injected VW) and I cannot get the thing to start. The previous owner said that it sat for about two years and he would start it up every once in a while and let it run. When it came time for him to sell it he could not get it to start. He said rats had chewed through the spark plug wires so he changed them and it still won't start...thats where it was when I got it. So here is what I have checked.

I looked for other chewed wires but could not find any. I tried spark timing it since I cant get it running. I am a little concerned about the ignition because it was a California electronic ignition that was bypassed and converted to points.

I have spark, I have fuel (even pulled injectors and they are spraying). I checked the head temp sensor and air flow sensor with an ohm meter and they are in spec. I disconnected the catalytic converter in case it was plugged. I did a compression test and all cylinders are around 140. I tried starting fluid like the guy said he did and all I get is backfires through the intake. There are some crusty hoses so I think there are some vacuum leaks but would those vacuum leaks cause it to not start? I know vacuum leaks cause it to run bad but I cant even get the thing to sputter. What am I missing, is there something else I should be looking for?

Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:24 pm

Make sure they are truly in the correct order around the distributor, it is easy to get them mixed up. If you have spark it still has to go the right place or it will act like yours.
Could be something else but that's where I'd start!

Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:30 pm

Did you check for spark at the plugs? What do the plugs look like? Wet? Dry?
Also check the timing. Are the plug wires routed correctly?
If you have fuel, air, spark at the correct time it should fire. Take a good look at all your ground wires too.

Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:46 pm

Bad fuel? Use starting fluid. Clean and gap, or replace the plugs.

Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:23 am

CarGuy8084 wrote: ...so he changed them and it still won't start...

Yep, it is real easy to get those wrong, it's not really intuitive:

Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:25 am

Yes the spark plugs are all in the right spot. The plugs look great but are dry. I am wondering if I have something wrong with the distributor. I did check for spark at each spark plug. I don't have a fuel pressure gauge so I don't know if i am getting the right pressure of fuel. I have been trying to use starting fluid so that should eliminate any variables in fuel. Since it still does not start with starting fluid it makes be think that it is ignition related. It does backfire through the intake when I use starting fluid which is why I thought timing was off. I timed it by spark timing (since its not running and I don't have a timing light ever since I loaned it to a friend and never got it back). I set the timing mark on 7.5 BTDC and rotated the distributor counterclockwise until no. 1 sparked. Is there a better way to time it when it won't run? Could there be something else besides timing that would cause backfire in the intake (really bad vacuum leaks)? Thanks for all your help so far!

Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:46 am

Have someone try starting it, while you rotate the distributor.
Turn it a little at a time, but turn it as much as you can in each direction.

CarGuy8084 wrote: Yes the spark plugs are all in the right spot. The plugs look great but are dry. I am wondering if I have something wrong with the distributor. I did check for spark at each spark plug. I don't have a fuel pressure gauge so I don't know if i am getting the right pressure of fuel. I have been trying to use starting fluid so that should eliminate any variables in fuel. Since it still does not start with starting fluid it makes be think that it is ignition related. It does backfire through the intake when I use starting fluid which is why I thought timing was off. I timed it by spark timing (since its not running and I don't have a timing light ever since I loaned it to a friend and never got it back). I set the timing mark on 7.5 BTDC and rotated the distributor counterclockwise until no. 1 sparked. Is there a better way to time it when it won't run? Could there be something else besides timing that would cause backfire in the intake (really bad vacuum leaks)? Thanks for all your help so far!

Tue Sep 16, 2014 8:07 am

I have tried that too. I actually have spliced in a remote starter trigger so I can try starting while I stand back there and work and I don't need a second person. This is so strange to me...everything I have checked seems fine and operating like it should.

I did notice some flame last night when it was dark coming out of the big hoses connecting the center intake to the smaller pipes going to each cylinder when it backfired. If I can see flames does that mean it is a huge vacuum leak? My thought was that there is more pressure on the back fire but under normal vacuum it seals those connections better than the positive pressure of the backfire.

Tue Sep 16, 2014 8:07 am

If the plugs are dry this would suggest no, or low fuel to start.

Fuel pump?
No or low gas in the tank?

Remove the intake rubber on the inbound side of the throttle body, open the throttle plate and with an oil can with some gas in it give a blast of gas.
Toss the hose back on fast and crank the engine over--see if it the engine fires.

Tue Sep 16, 2014 8:13 am

Do you have bosch platinum plugs in this?
If so, the coil is bad!

CarGuy8084 wrote: I have tried that too. I actually have spliced in a remote starter trigger so I can try starting while I stand back there and work and I don't need a second person. This is so strange to me...everything I have checked seems fine and operating like it should.

I did notice some flame last night when it was dark coming out of the big hoses connecting the center intake to the smaller pipes going to each cylinder when it backfired. If I can see flames does that mean it is a huge vacuum leak? My thought was that there is more pressure on the back fire but under normal vacuum it seals those connections better than the positive pressure of the backfire.

Tue Sep 16, 2014 8:17 am

Not sure if they are platinum...I don't think so I think they are some sort ov v-spark something. I will try a different coil tonight when I get home maybe.

Tue Sep 16, 2014 8:36 am

Terry Kay wrote: If the plugs are dry this would suggest no, or low fuel to start.

Fuel pump?
No or low gas in the tank?

Remove the intake rubber on the inbound side of the throttle body, open the throttle plate and with an oil can with some gas in it give a blast of gas.
Toss the hose back on fast and crank the engine over--see if it the engine fires.

Wouldn't spraying starting fluid in there do the same thing as pouring gas into the intake? It still wouldnt start with starting fluid, only backfire through the intake.

Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:26 am

Through the intake--like through the air cleaner intake?

Maybe if you saturated the air filter with the Vitamin E it would.

I mentioned to remove the rubber hose between the throttle body & the air cleaner and give a couple of direct shots of gas.
You just eliminated the air filter soaking up of the intake charge.
And the only reason for this is you said the plugs are dry---bone dry--right?
No juice to the cylinder's Bruce--

If it starts to hit on a couple of cylinder's your narrowing something down without soaking the air filter first.

Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:37 am

so I had removed the air filter assembly and shot it down the elbow and then stuck it back on to try starting. I didn't take the elbow off the throttle body but I was spraying it through the elbow. I did not open the throttle when spraying though, I thought that enough would get through. Maybe I should open the throttle all the way when spraying. I also thought that enough starting fluid was getting in because it was igniting after spraying...it was just backfiring and not igniting at the correct time.

Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:28 am

Open the throttle plate shoot whatever into it.

If it just blubbers & won't fire, you mentioned the distributor has a set of points in it.

What are thet points set at?
The contacts pitted, corroded?

Now, once you have this all dialed in, you can start to figure out how far you have the timing off to keep it from running.

Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:40 am

CarGuy8084 wrote: ...I have spark, I have fuel (even pulled injectors and they are spraying)... is there something else I should be looking for?

I would pull off the distributor cap and see how the rotor is oriented with, say, #1 at TDC on the compression stroke.

Since you have never heard it run and some creative work has occurred in its past, I'd say almost anything is possible.

Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:54 am

Ahwahnee wrote: I would pull off the distributor cap and see how the rotor is oriented with, say, #1 at TDC on the compression stroke.

Since you have never heard it run and some creative work has occurred in its past, I'd say almost anything is possible.

That is not a bad thought...it is possible to get the distributor 180 degrees out correct? Maybe when I get home I will pull number 1 spark plug and crank it until I feel the wind come out of no. 1 and then check to see if the rotor is on no. 1. I was going off the assumption that it was running and it just would not start one day without changing anything (since that is what the guy told me).

Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:15 am

If you look at the top rim of the distributor with the rotor off you will likely see a small notch in the rim. This usually corresponds to where the rotor should be pointing when cylinder 1 is at TDC on the compression stroke. This can help get the distributor rotated close to where it needs to be to get started.

Tue Sep 16, 2014 2:15 pm

That's american car where you can put the dis. in at 180 deg. out..

Try this. REmove the dis. cap. and just see if you can turn the rotor
by hand. I've seen people put the dis. in but not all the way. When
you try to run it, the rotor doesn't turn at all.

CarGuy8084 wrote: Ahwahnee wrote: I would pull off the distributor cap and see how the rotor is oriented with, say, #1 at TDC on the compression stroke.

Since you have never heard it run and some creative work has occurred in its past, I'd say almost anything is possible.

That is not a bad thought...it is possible to get the distributor 180 degrees out correct? Maybe when I get home I will pull number 1 spark plug and crank it until I feel the wind come out of no. 1 and then check to see if the rotor is on no. 1. I was going off the assumption that it was running and it just would not start one day without changing anything (since that is what the guy told me).

Tue Sep 16, 2014 5:13 pm

Just thinking;
Air cooled Vanagon?
Parked?
Why is it parked?
No start?
Backfiring?

Before & prior yo digging into the distributor, do yourself a big favor.
Set the air brakes, pull the plugs & take a compression check on each hole.
I'll bet you got a big compression leak in the front 2 cylinders.
Burnt valves or valve seats gone.

Don't go getting all excited here, first thing to do is figure out pretty quick if it's going to run, and it sure won't with a couple of smoked valves.