TheSamba.com :: View topic - The Definitive Guide for Aux Battery and Solar

Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:17 pm

Ok guys, so I’ve read every possible thread and website about 2nd battery & solar system. There’s sooooo much info on threads, old info and links, getting a lot off topic, and really nothing concrete, so I need help to figure out the best and most complete/reliable system up to date (and not with info from some 2008 threads) so we could finally make a "Complete and Definitive Guide for Auxiliary Battery and Solar System"

I have a 89’ Automatic Westfalia Vanagon full camper and want to add a second battery system and solar to power a TruckFridge49 + radio and speaker system + interior lights + charging my laptop and cameras + future Propex heater. I would like to use as best as I can the auxiliary battery box under the drivers seat to remain as much free space on the rest of the van.

So, what I have in mind is:

A. Battery:
• Option 1: The WestyVentures System:
o 1. Lifeline 27 100 ah http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/rvdeepcyclebatteries.php
o Scroll Down to middle of the page http://www.westyventures.com/rigs.html
o The Catch: He uses the battery on a Syncro, so I don’t know if I could make those custom-fabricated boxes for the 100ah battery (only will use one, not two as he).

• Option 2:
o 4 UB12220 22 ah Batteries for a total of 88 ah under the driver’s seat.
o The Catch: Read somewhere that these batteries were a lot of trouble to charge them and they aren’t really reliable.

B. Battery Isolator/Combiner:
• As read on this page: http://wheresmyofficenow.com/vanagon-how-to/how-to...er-set-up/
• Will buy this one: https://www.bluesea.com/products/7610/SI-ACR_Automatic_Charging_Relay_-_12_24V_DC_120A
• I’m going to use and live in the van in South America, so I won’t be charging or connecting the van to an outside source because they use 220v, so I’m pretty much relying on the alternator when travelling and the solar panel when camping, plus is the idea of the system to camp with it everywhere!

C. GoWesty Battery Kit:
• Should I get this to install it? http://www.gowesty.com/ec_view_details.php?id=2418&category_id=4339&category_parent_id=
• Is the battery isolator/combiner doing the same thing as the solenoid provided in this kit?

D. Solar Panel:
• Decided to go with the system provided from the user “Rumitcu” as shown here, very clever: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPW15ZPnhG4
• I read it from this thread, recommended http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2...p;start=40
• But, I have 2 options of 100w solar panels:
o Option 1: Provided by the same user Rumitcu http://www.amazon.com/Ramsond-Monocrystalline-Phot...d_sbs_lg_4
o Option 2: Comes with cables, a cheap controller that won’t be using and it’s cheaper. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BFCNFRM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

E. Controller:
• Read that the MPPT controller is the way to go, but don’t know which one is better.
o MPPT: http://www.aurinco.com/pvcr0XXGV_us.html
o MPPT: http://www.amazon.com/Tracer-Controller-Regulators...cer+2215RN

F. Inverter:
• Don’t know if there is a better/cheaper option: http://www.gowesty.com/ec_view_details.php?id=4309

Finally, Do I need to get this? http://www.gowesty.com/ec_view_details.php?id=23762

And do I need to get something else?

Thanks a lot guys, tell me what you think and suggest and hopefully we can make a definitive guide. :D

Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:49 pm

A. I'd like to know too.. In our last van we put a Group 27DC under the rear seat, but I'd love a solution that would fit in the "stock" location... 4 batteries seems more complicated than it should be, I like the idea of extending the stock box though...

B. I personally like the Yandina, and they're a bit cheaper ($65)

C. Correct, you do not need this kit if you have the BlueSea ACR / Yandina, etc...

D. Hadn't seen the luggage rack solution, interesting for sure... My plan is to go with a semi-flexible mount this time around (did a traditional panel on last van, heavy) Amazon

E. Somewhat subjective... I would try and balance price / warranty / reviews here. I'm going to go MPPT as well since it's gotten quite a bit more affordable.

F. That's a really big inverter for a Vanagon. You really should size it based on your combined loads and size accordingly. Typically you get peak efficiency around 70-90% of the rated load, so running 100w load on a 1100w inverter isn't usually as efficient as 100w load on a 200w inverter. For comparison, we powered a 450sqft yurt on a 1500w inverter. Lights, wifi, 46" TV, etc... I'm planning on a 300w or so pure sine inverter.

Upsized alt cable - it's not going to hurt anything, but I would get the one that Jay (I think?) sells here, he makes some nice stuff.

You will also want to pickup a fuse box for your Aux loads: Amazon

Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:26 pm

iliketowalk wrote: A. I'd like to know too.. In our last van we put a Group 27DC under the rear seat, but I'd love a solution that would fit in the "stock" location... 4 batteries seems more complicated than it should be, I like the idea of extending the stock box though...

B. I personally like the Yandina, and they're a bit cheaper ($65)

C. Correct, you do not need this kit if you have the BlueSea ACR / Yandina, etc...

D. Hadn't seen the luggage rack solution, interesting for sure... My plan is to go with a semi-flexible mount this time around (did a traditional panel on last van, heavy) Amazon

E. Somewhat subjective... I would try and balance price / warranty / reviews here. I'm going to go MPPT as well since it's gotten quite a bit more affordable.

F. That's a really big inverter for a Vanagon. You really should size it based on your combined loads and size accordingly. Typically you get peak efficiency around 70-90% of the rated load, so running 100w load on a 1100w inverter isn't usually as efficient as 100w load on a 200w inverter. For comparison, we powered a 450sqft yurt on a 1500w inverter. Lights, wifi, 46" TV, etc... I'm planning on a 300w or so pure sine inverter.

Upsized alt cable - it's not going to hurt anything, but I would get the one that Jay (I think?) sells here, he makes some nice stuff.

You will also want to pickup a fuse box for your Aux loads: Amazon

Such a great and concrete answer. Thank you very much.

I read in some thread that flexibles panels had a lot of trouble and didn't get as much power per surface as the traditional ones, if I find the thread I will post it.

I evaluate the option of the Yandina Combiner, but opted for the Blue Sea because as posted in the link that I provided "The only draw back is that it comes with a fixed length of 10 gauge wire. There are two reasons why this is not ideal. First, the wire that travels back to the positive terminal on you starter battery will not reach when the Yandina is mounted in the Auxiliary battery box. (the best spot for it) You have to add a butt connector and an extra piece of wire for the connection. Second, you are limited to a 10 gauge wire with Yandina 100. The larger gauge (lower number) you use the more current that can flow from the stater battery to your auxiliary. To negate these two problems Blue Sea System has a combiner that allows you to add whatever gauge and length wire you desire."

You are right about the inverter, I will definetvly evalue it! Thanks for the advice.

I didn't actually understand about the Upsized alt cable that you mention though...

Added the fuse box to the list. Thanks! :D

Mon Sep 22, 2014 1:58 am

Here are my thoughts:

Battery: I would get the largest you can fit into whatever space you are going to use. I understand that you don't want batteries taking up space in the van, but the stock locations do not allow for many amp hours. That custom box on the WestyVentures site is pretty nifty, if you are good at fabbing up things like that yourself. I believe that there is not a lot of room to modify that area without possibly running afoul of the wheels, so I'd ne very careful about taking that approach.

A custom battery box required a bit more cutting / fabrication than I wanted to do, so I fit a 60ah in the stock location under the driver seat, plus another 60ah into the little cabinet next to the rear bench (and have since upgraded the cabinet-mounted battery to a 140ah as pictured below). I have read that the 4xUB12220 battery combination was a bad idea, and I would stay away from it.

Another option from Peace Vans that takes NO interior space at all - a mounting tray under the van: http://www.peacevansseattle.com/pv-battery-tray

I cannot personally vouch for it, but it looks like a pretty neat (but somewhat expensive!) option.

GoWesty Battery Kit: You do not need it if you use a Yandina or Blue Seas ACR

Solar Panel: I have the Ramsond 100W panel from Amazon that you linked to (it is providing power to my bike shed). It is a fine choice... BUT: I would go with the Renogy thin panel as talked about in this thread:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=605745&highlight=renogy

Note that this is a Mono-crystalline panel and not the amorphous thin panels that you may have read about that aren't very efficient. If this option had existed when I set up my panel, I would have surely chosen two of those 100W thin panels instead. They weigh a whole lot less than the single 140W panel that I have on the roof now, and they are obviously way lower profile. I would mount one permanently, and store the other in the upper bunk and keep it portable.

Inverter: I have an inverter, but rarely ever use it. What do you need it for? Remember that an inverter is not 100% efficient, and can be as low as 50% efficient (although it is not unusual for them to be somewhere in the 80% range, depending on their use). It is much better if the electrical items you use be natively 12V so no conversion (and loss of efficiency) occurs. The list of items you mention above (lights, radio, TF49, etc) are all 12V, so that should not be a problem.

Controller: I have the Tracer controller that you list, and I know that at least a couple of others here on the Samba have mentioned that they have it as well. It has worked out fine for me. Note that the included remote LCD monitor is VERY dim, and almost unreadable from any angle other than straight-on, so mount it where it is easily visible from head on.

The other controller that you list (Genasun?) has a float voltage of 13.5V and Absorption voltage of 14.4V. Most deep-cycle AGM batteries prefer a voltage higher than that. The Tracer goes up to 14.8V (which is exactly what my battery manufacturer recommends). Manual here: http://voile.org/panneaux_solaires/Tracer-2210RN.pdf

Finally, you may need one of these:

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Adjustable-Voltage-Re...ulator.htm

If your alternator is not putting out enough voltage, the battery will be in a constantly starved condition. This item allows you to set the voltage to whatever your battery manufacturer recommends, which should keep your battery happy.

My setup as noted above (140W panel, 200ah of batteries) worked out well on a recent week-long trip. I was able to run my fridge, my lights, charge two large smartphones, watch movies on a 19 inch 12V TV from a small PC (running directly off of 12V), run an AquaCube on-demand hot-water heater, and charge a few other items (bike lights, GPS, etc.) and never go below 12.4V. The weather alternated between foggy/cloudy and sunny. Note that I also hooked up a small portable 20W panel to follow the sun throughout the day, but I probably didn't even need it.

Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:32 pm

ChilliConCarnage wrote: Here are my thoughts:
...

Thanks a lot! Those are some nice ideas. I like the idea of going with a third battery in the little cabinet, but the question that remains is, what battery do you recommend? What's the name and model of the 60ah that you put into the stock location and also the one of 140ah that you put into the cabinet?

My original idea is to mount the solar panel permanently, it's a nice idea the Renogy Panel that you show, so I was now thinking in buying an 80w panel that will fit almost perfect into the top luggage compartment as shown here http://1981vwcamper.blogspot.com/2013/07/solar-power-time.html + adding one of the Renogy to the side of the roof rack box also permanently. I read that you could attach these with velcro, but I really don't know how they will handle with the wind and/or hot while driving. I know I won't receive 100% solar power into the Renogy with this setup because of the shade that the cargo box will make sometimes, but I will still have 180w which I think is more than enough for 200ah of batteries.

For the controller I also read that the Renogy MPPT one is quite good, what do you think of it?

Oh, and for the alternator, I was thinking in buying this kit from GoWesty, it will work as well as the one you show in the link? http://www.gowesty.com/ec_view_details.php?id=23762&category_id=&category_parent_id=

Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:47 pm

candersenortiz wrote: Ok guys, so I’ve read every possible thread and website about 2nd battery & solar system. There’s sooooo much info on threads, old info and links, getting a lot off topic, and really nothing concrete, so I need help to figure out the best and most complete/reliable system up to date (and not with info from some 2008 threads) so we could finally make a "Complete and Definitive Guide for Auxiliary Battery and Solar System"

I appreciate the effort here. The only problem with trying to make a thread like this on this particular topic is the rapid change in technology and the short lifespan of players in this marketplace. Solar manufacturers come and go rapidly and with so many different offerings that you many times can't even buy the same product 6 weeks after you just bought it. Especially with all the no-name and copy brands flooding the market from china. Then there's the infinite number of ways us individual westy users want to customize our own system for our own use. I haven't even got into talking about batteries yet. I don't think you can really call it a difinitive guide when it's going to be one of those "old and obsolete" posts by next year. I think the best we can do is have everyone post their own design and installation as has been done over the years to give others creative ideas to customize their own system.

Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:51 pm

PDXWesty wrote: candersenortiz wrote: Ok guys, so I’ve read every possible thread and website about 2nd battery & solar system. There’s sooooo much info on threads, old info and links, getting a lot off topic, and really nothing concrete, so I need help to figure out the best and most complete/reliable system up to date (and not with info from some 2008 threads) so we could finally make a "Complete and Definitive Guide for Auxiliary Battery and Solar System"

I appreciate the effort here. The only problem with trying to make a thread like this on this particular topic is the rapid change in technology and the short lifespan of players in this marketplace. Solar manufacturers come and go rapidly and with so many different offerings that you many times can't even buy the same product 6 weeks after you just bought it. Especially with all the no-name and copy brands flooding the market from china. Then there's the infinite number of ways us individual westy users want to customize our own system for our own use. I haven't even got into talking about batteries yet. I don't think you can really call it a difinitive guide when it's going to be one of those "old and obsolete" posts by next year.

I understand your point my friend, but the idea is to keep it alive and updated, as we have until now. After I install my setup, the idea is to post it with detailed pics and info, and maybe later other people can also do it without letting the topic die. Hope it works, otherwise, it's worth the shot!

Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:37 pm

Ok, so I'm going to buy all the equipment needed, but I need help with the controller and battery.

Panel:

I'm considering this panel kit, because it includes the controller, the cables and for the same price of the Ramsond panel http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BFCNFRM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The thing is that I don't know what's the difference of the controller provided in the kit and a MPPT controller such as the Tracer. Is it worth the money and should I go with the tracer or is it okay with te provided controller in the kit?

Battery:

I'm considering this battery http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ACNO2AO/ref=gn...0ATSR61H8N

Has someone tried out? Also, does anybody know of a good deep cycle battery that will fit in the aux battery box under the driver seat?

Sun Oct 19, 2014 7:10 pm

candersenortiz wrote:
The thing is that I don't know what's the difference of the controller provided in the kit and a MPPT controller such as the Tracer. Is it worth the money and should I go with the tracer or is it okay with te provided controller in the kit?
Isn't mppt almost always better than PWM?

Sun Oct 19, 2014 7:12 pm

luVWagn wrote: candersenortiz wrote:
The thing is that I don't know what's the difference of the controller provided in the kit and a MPPT controller such as the Tracer. Is it worth the money and should I go with the tracer or is it okay with te provided controller in the kit?
Isn't mppt almost always better than PWM?

I guess, the thing is that I don't know why...

Sun Oct 19, 2014 7:54 pm

Good thread idea, it'll be nice to consolidate all this information. My experience with my solar setup has led me believe that everyone with a solar system in their van should have either the Bogart TriMetric 2025 or 2030 battery monitor. Without this or something very similar, you won't know how much power you're drawing from your battery at any given time. This is a valuable tool for forecasting your power usage and replaces the need to have a voltmeter. It will also show the voltage of both your primary and aux battery in watts or amps, which is handy. It's incredible useful to pinpoint how much power each accessory uses. For instance, I now know that my car stereo uses about 10w, my fridge uses about 38 watts when the compressor is on, the galley light uses about 12w, etc. I highly recommend it:

http://www.bogartengineering.com/content/trimetrics/

My question to forum is... I have the gowesty aux charging kit, which I find works great for my needs, but reduces the amount of voltage coming into the aux battery from the alternator when the car is on because it is being charged through small-gauge wiring in the dash. Aside from that, it works great. Instead of going to a Yandina solution and running new large gauge wiring between the passenger and driver batteries, wouldn't a more straightforward approach be to just use the adjustable voltage regulator from air-cooled to "turn up the juice" a bit? ( https://vwparts.aircooled.net/ShoppingCart.asp? ). I understand that the starting battery will see higher voltages than the aux battery this way since the aux battery is still using the in-dash wiring, but it's better than before, right? Thanks.

Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:25 pm

candersenortiz wrote:
Battery:

I'm considering this battery http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ACNO2AO/ref=gn...0ATSR61H8N

Has someone tried out? Also, does anybody know of a good deep cycle battery that will fit in the aux battery box under the driver seat?

Hmmmm... Haven't tried it but skeptical. Sure, it has a 125ah rating over the comparable DieHard Platinum AGM (100ah)... BUT... it only has a 12 month warrantee versus the DieHard's 36 month warrantee... And if the DieHard takes a sh*t there is a Sears in Everytown USA. Doh... just remembered that you are headed to South America. Oh well, the 36 month warrantee (and all the Samba reviews) would still give me more confidence in the DH batteries.

BTW... You really should give up on the idea of "a good deep cycle battery that will fit in the aux battery box under the seat." Ain't gonna happen (and keep you happy... especially with your list in your first post of what you plan to run). Bite the bullet and put two DieHard Platinum AGM batteries under your bench seat. They really don't take up that much space. Have you already eliminated your rear heater? Might as well, since you are going to get a Propex anyway. Use the box under your driver's seat for tools, spare fuel pump, water pump, etc,etc,etc. Then if you need even more space, consider a Thule box. I love mine and can pack all my crap for my family of four in it, no problem.