TheSamba.com :: View topic

Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:58 pm

I understand it takes money to build a good motor. My quandary is it more to build a type 4 than a 2110 cc? I am looking at several kits and suppliers. Three have caught my attention. For the type one I am looking at the scat volksracer kit, a kit from kustom warehouse with graphite forged piston( does that really serve any purpose?) And a longblock from eBay for the type 4. I want to build my next motor I don't expect to just bolt everything together and have it work out. I am aware that Raby had beautiful type 4 setups. Does he sell kits to build? My other questions are what is the longevity of a type4 and 2110. I know 2110 less issues when properly built than other motor s that are stroked. Would an aluminum case negate the advantage of a type 4? Is there differences in how long they last vs magnesium? How long does a type 4 engine last? How long would a 2110 with all forged components last? ANY one who built one these know how much did it cost? Thanks in advance. This is going in my fastback. P.s is a IRS trans up to handling the power increase in these engines?

Fri Sep 26, 2014 9:39 pm

I had kits years ago... I discontinued them.

Back in 2013 I sold my retail parts division to LN Engineering and they brought back some of the kits.

All we offer here are complete engines, and engine development.

Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:59 am

Thanks for info on the kits. I think I will take a closer look at your complete engines. I will take a look at their kits.

Sat Sep 27, 2014 12:38 pm

If you want to build it yourself you won't learn anything buying one from Raby etc. Build a 2110 yourself with cast components & How to Rebuild Your Volkswagen Air-Cooled Engine by Tom Wilson. It will last you many years. You want to spend a small fortune on your first VW engine! :wink:

Sat Sep 27, 2014 7:20 pm

I will take that advice. I plan on building the2110 I picked up an extra job to pay for it. Should be fun I been reading the Tom Wilson book. Can't believe how expensive the type 4 can be :shock: . I could build three 2110 for that. Nor saying it isn't worth it. Thanks

Sat Sep 27, 2014 8:07 pm

freizusein wrote: Would an aluminum case negate the advantage of a type 4? Is there differences in how long they last vs magnesium?

I don'tknow if there's enough info out there to say 1 case is better than another. The nice thing about the all aluminum case, is you can weld on it. 8)
I've been running an all aluminum case 1600 for 8 years now. No complaints on it. Love it. :D

Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:07 am

Where did you buy your case? sounds like a good product. Thanks for writing. Lots of good tips.please keep them coming. :D

Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:03 am

Mine started out as an Autolinea case (made in Brazil). It was then machined to clean up it's faults (it was an early production case).

Sun Sep 28, 2014 10:41 pm

Oh, man, not the old type 1 vs. type 4 debate...

Not _again_.... :roll: :roll:

_Any_ motor is going to be expensive if you build it to the level that Jake does!

Try this type 4 build on for size - here is a motor that will go a couple hundred thousand miles, and don't be surprised if its as fast as a mild 2110.

http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=145440

Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:52 pm

I am starting to think building a type 4 isnt a bad idea. however with the cases from available from scat it seems like you can build a decent type 1. I havent found to many cheap things about the type 4. But I guess you get what you pay for. The Scat Killer case seems impressive and reasonably priced along with their super high performance aluminum case. They also offer the dual bypass as 41 case in their kits. Anyone have any experience with these??? :?:
So far what I am liking about these is they are not 2300 hundred bucks. Thoughts would be appreciated. :D I realize not everyone is a scat fan. I have better luck with them than empi. That being said I am very much a novice.

Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:18 pm

It all depends on the type off power you are looking for. I have a 2110 with a Engle 110 cam in my DD bug, and a 2L type 4 with a scat C25 in my Squareback. Power wise, they are completely separate engine. The 2110 is a much snappier engine, while the type 4 is a torquer. However, on long freeway runs on hot days, the 2110 begins to heat up, even though I have a larger external oil cooler on it. However, the T4 just shrugs of the heat and keeps on going with out an external cooler. I live in the san Joaquin valley, so every road trip requires me to go over mountain passes of at least 5000'. So the bug stays home and the T4 Squareback loves to fly up the mountain passes, You should see the looks I get when I pass by the newer cars.

Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:07 am

I would buy an aluminum case since the magnesium cases are dirty looking. A cast Scat kit built 2007cc would run cooler with plenty of power on tap!

Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:33 am

You really can't compare the two.

First, they built the 25/36HP beetles,
Then that evolved up to 40/50/65HP with the same basic design.

Then,
They decided to start from scratch, and build the best motor they could, without having to adopt any of the old motor's parts.
They took and learned from having built motors for 40-odd years or so, and incorporated it into the new design.
Yes, the type 4 is aluminum, but....
There is a whole big list of things they did that you will never get from the aftermarket.
Like remove-able lifters, or 50% more cooling fins.
The very best race T1 cases will have T4 mains.
The TF-1 is, IIRC, the only case that is cross-bolted,
And none come with the Hoover HVX mods from the factory.

But none will have the length needed to get the crank webbing wide enough to keep down flex and avoid pounded mains.

Oh, lord, here I go again... Rant rant rant.... all for what?

It's really hard to tell someone that a T4 case you might find under a tree, or being given away at a swap, is better than a $$$$ one in a full-page color glossy ad in a magazine.

Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:27 am

This is a flashback to Y2K!

Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:11 pm

Thats a good point I had not thought about. From what I am reading I can buy a used type 4 motor that is priced decently and not really have to have the case machined. Just rebuild on the heads. Is that true? :?: I am definetly looking to do something that will last and I can count on. I dont expect it to be perfect but if I can get there I would like to try. :D And no I do not expect it to be maitenance free.

Thu Oct 02, 2014 6:19 am

Jake Raby wrote: This is a flashback to Y2K!

Flashback to "All About Performance Engines #3" for me...

The best Type 4 build ever documented. You know I have just about all the parts for my Raby tribute 2270!

...now if I could only buy those Jake/Len heads without the wife noticing...

Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:35 am

"Tribute"
Damn, I have been doing this way too long!

Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:12 am

Looks Like you will not be the only one building a tribute motor the advantages of the type four blow my mind :shock:. Been doing a lot of reading. Where does the line between a porsche and vw stop? :lol: Went to my local car show and asked a vendor if he had porsche and vw posters he said I was first Porsche he had seen in a couple of shows. I found that a little hard to believe.

Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:32 am

Jake Raby wrote: "Tribute"
Damn, I have been doing this way too long!

Not as long as I have....

Where's "Danimal"? :lol:

At least you have moved on to 'real' cars, Jake...
I'm still here doing the exact same things!
:lol:

Fri Oct 03, 2014 1:59 pm

Jake,

What is your Avatar picture? It looks like a boar with a pinion shaft in it's mouth.