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  View original topic: 1977 Starts but won't stay running
77westynewmex Sat Oct 11, 2014 7:52 am

I just purchased a 77 westy. Finally..... I'm new here and have searched the posts for my problem but can't find a cure yet.
The bus has been sitting for a while, not sure how long, not very long according to the seller who said it DID run.

It turned over fine but wouldn't start. The fuel pump wasn't working so I put in a new one, and a filter. I also drained and flushed the tank.....At first the pump still didn't work so I read up on the subject and opened the Air Flow Meter a little and checked for power on the double relay with the key in the "ON" position and then finally got power to the pump. Probably a dirty connection on the relay....... Now it starts up but dies within a couple seconds. I can try again immediately for a second start with same results, but if I try a third attempt it won't start. It'll just keep turning over... If I wait for about 3 or 4 minutes it will fire up again but only for a couple seconds. And again the 2nd attempt will do the same but the third or more attempts it won't fire up.... I always have to wait after the second attempt before it will fire up. Almost seems like it is flooded..... One other bit of info..... I had my girlfriend turn the key while I held open the Air Flow Meter with the tip of a screwdriver and noticed that when it started the flap would flutter... Is that normal? Supposedly the AFM is new.....Any help would be greatly appriciated

merlinj79 Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:25 am

Try disconnecting and the re-connecting all of the FI cable connectors...maybe something is dirty/corroded.

Also verify that all the grounds in the engine compartment are connected and clean (there are several going to one fitting on top of the case under the manifold...these are often overlooked).

IIRC one of the wires going to the coil positive(?) terminal powers the fuel pump and will prevent starting if not connected right...it should be a black wire with a square plastic female blade connector that is part of the harness on the left side of the engine bay.

Tcash Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:36 am

Welcome
May be running off the cold start injector. Make sure the white wire on term #1 -neg side of the coil has a good connection.
noticed that when it started the flap would flutter.
Yes it will flutter. This is normal.

Tcash wrote: Here is a little information. Good Luck

Pronunciation (Samba) English

Cleaning+Rodents+Hantavirus
Up in smoke... Bus fires... don't let it happen to you!
Volkswagen Type 2 Bus M-Plate Decoder
Bus VIN / Chassis Numbers
Type 2/Bus Owner's Manuals
Bus repair manuals
Bus parts manuals
Early Baywindow Bus Parts Book
Late Baywindow Bus Parts Fiche
Type 2 Wiring Diagrams
Model and Year Variations
Type 4: Secrets Revealed
Distributor Parts & Specifications
PARTS INTERCHANGE MANUAL
Youtube Videos

There is a ton of information located at the top of the Forum section.

SGKent Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:50 am

the advice given above is all good.

The sequence of events is

1. Key is turned to start
2. This energizes fuel pump and solenoid so engine turns over. Plugs fire off coil and distributor. CSV only injects for a few seconds. If you start it multiple times it now longer injects because the switch controlling it has warmed up.
3. Engine starts and key is released to run position. Double relay takes over. It is energized by a switch inside the AFM. Pump is now running off double relay. Injectors are firing off ECU signal.

Squirt a tablespoon of fuel in the throttle body or S-Boot when it doesn't start and see if it does. If it does then most likely your injectors are not working. This can be a bad ground, no power to them, no signal from the coil to ECU (often wire is accidentally put on wrong terminal) etc.

You should check to see if the fuel pump runs when the key is on and the AFM flap moved open. Don't do it for too long as you can burn up the distributor points by leaving the key on.

77westynewmex Sat Oct 11, 2014 4:55 pm

Thanks for the info. I didn't get a chance to do anything today but I should be able to tomorrow. I'll get back with you guys and let you know how the testing turns out.

77westynewmex Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:12 am

THANK YOU GUYS!!!!. I cleaned off the connections on the coil, unhooked and hooked back the injector connectors and did the same to the ECU connector and PRESTO!!! It fired right up and idled fine.
I took it for a 2 mile test drive and everything seems fine.. I do however, hear a slight knock in the engine that I don't remember hearing on initial start up. Rechecked oil level, checks OK.
I'm guessing the best thing to do at this point would be to take it to someone more experienced than I to diagnose the knock.

Wasted youth Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:13 pm

That's great that you posted your troubles, got sound advice and fixed your problem. 8) I bet that little test drive was pretty fun!

Now about that knock... if you can get hold of a length of tubing, you can put one to an ear, then probe the other end around to where you think the knock might be, so you can try to narrow down where the sound is emanating.

Then, report back here!

And... don't spend a lot of time driving around with that knock until it gets addressed. :shock:

oshima Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:17 am

I wouldn't worry too much about it if you just fired it up. A lot of times those hydraulic lifters can rattle so bad after sitting a long time that it sounds like knocking. Run it for a bit and see if it calms down.

Edit: bearing in mind what ^ he said of course

77westynewmex Tue Oct 14, 2014 10:23 am

I found a mobile mechanic that's gonna come by today or tomorrow to take a look just to make sure it's nothing serious. I'm gonna have him take a look at the valves and make any adjustments necessary and so I can learn to do it too.

If I get a chance today I'm gonna see if I can find where the noise is coming from as Wasted Youth suggests..

I'll report back the findings soon.

Thanks again for all your help.

I REALLY do appreciate it

SGKent Tue Oct 14, 2014 12:23 pm

77westynewmex wrote: I found a mobile mechanic that's gonna come by today or tomorrow to take a look just to make sure it's nothing serious. I'm gonna have him take a look at the valves and make any adjustments necessary and so I can learn to do it too.

If I get a chance today I'm gonna see if I can find where the noise is coming from as Wasted Youth suggests..

I'll report back the findings soon.

Thanks again for all your help.

I REALLY do appreciate it

If you are near Los Alamos get to know John Tauxe. If you are near Albuquerque get to know Phil (whip618)

77westynewmex Fri Oct 17, 2014 8:57 am

The mechanic stopped by.. We adjusted the valves to .006 There were two loose ones at .010 and one tight one about .005

It didn't seem to idle as well as when I first started it up. (Engine was still a little warm ) He said it was probably due to my Aux air regulator.. Says they don't make them anymore.

Also I wanted to upgrade to a Pertronix distributor. Pertronix says they don't make them for type 2 engines but that some people put in the one designed for the type 1. They do have however the module to replace points,etc.

Any thoughts ????

Thanks in advance

Manfreds78bay Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:49 am

Sure they do. Part number 1849. I just looked it up on their online catalog. If you told them you had a type 2 engine, that's probably why they said they didn't have one. You have a type 4 engine.

http://www.pertronix.com/catalogs/pdf/ptx/2012/Pertronix2012.pdf

Tcash Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:22 am

He said it was probably due to my Aux air regulator.. Says they don't make them anymore.
There was a post about cleaning them.

Randy in Maine Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:30 am

Here is how to adjust the AAR....

http://www.itinerant-air-cooled.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=7834

What you really want is a "petronics igniton module" to install in your existing distributor (assuming yours is the correct 205P) for about $60 or so. And yes they do make them.

Try aircooled.net to order one up.

Wasted youth Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:16 am

Spend your money on something more important than a new ignition module. Learn how to adjust points, and you will gain valuble insight. Petronix has some great reviews, but what will you do when the module fails on a road trip? At least if you had a conventional ignition set up, you would be able to continue on, because you took the time now to learn how all that works. 8)

I can think of a long list of nickel and dime items that are eyeballing your wallet right now, so be mindful of learning about what is really critical at this point.

I was very happy with my 1977 fuel injected bus, and already regret selling it. It was an expensive experience, albeit with a sweet reward. For what it's worth, I was running an electronic module, but that was because the distributor that was in there needed to be overhauled. I was able to get a completely brand new dizzy from Great Britain complete with module, cap and rotor far cheaper than I could get mine rebuilt. It performed flawlessly, and I had no problems passing the smog check.

No Simple Highway Fri Oct 17, 2014 12:18 pm

Tcash wrote: He said it was probably due to my Aux air regulator.. Says they don't make them anymore.
There was a post about cleaning them.


http://www.busdepot.com/022906045a

In stock. Made in France.

Phat Pat Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:47 pm

Manfreds78bay wrote: Sure they do. Part number 1849. I just looked it up on their online catalog. If you told them you had a type 2 engine, that's probably why they said they didn't have one. You have a type 4 engine.

http://www.pertronix.com/catalogs/pdf/ptx/2012/Pertronix2012.pdf



It's actually 1847. You've got to look a little farther down the list.



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