TheSamba.com :: View topic - Help!- My new '62 is completely locked up

Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:33 am

I recently acquired a '62 Type 1. The deal was too good to pass up on and it looks great in the garage next to my '64. The story goes that it was sitting in a barn for 25 or so years and then someone bought it where it sat outside for another 2 years. I found it on CL, and towed it home a couple of months ago and started cleaning out years of dirt and dust. It is surprisingly solid however, all of the mechanicals are frozen and will not budge. The transmission is stuck in either 1st or 3rd ( I think 3rd) and you cannot move the shift lever. The rear wheels and the engine will not turn and or even budge. I did some research and the engine is a 1600 industrial engine from an old sprayer. I have tried removing the engine and have had no luck. I have it completely unbolted and it will not move. I have tried fitting a pry bar between the engine and the tranny on the bottom but there is very little room. Has anyone had this issue before of not being able to remove the engine? Any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:48 am

Stupid question on my part, four nuts:

Two at the bottom and two on top of the bell housing

Right? ???

Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:59 am

Yes, all four have been removed and it will not move out at all. It is almost like the splines and clutch/flywheel have all rusted together, if that is even possible.

Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:49 am

I suppose the spline on the tranny input shaft are rusted to the clutch splines.

If you could get penetrating oil in there, that may help, drill a hole in the bell house to get a spray or penetrating oil via a straw into the splines???.

could the motor tilt enough to snake the tranny out with the motor? at least then you can work on it all around, penetrating oil and prying

Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:57 am

I had the same issue way back when good deals were hard to pass up. The clutch was rust welded to the flywheel, the trans shaft same. Pulled the whole mess out as one unit, split it apart on the floor. Saved a bunch of cursing & sweating, under the car.

Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:28 am

I guess I will remove the engine and tranny together. I didn't think there was enough room to do so but apparently it has been done before.

Thu Oct 16, 2014 10:02 am

Before you go through removing the engine and transmission as a unit, will the rear wheels turn if they are both off the ground?

And if so, do they both turn in the same direction or in opposite directions?

It may be that your biggest problem is the transmission has selected 2 gears at once. If this is the issue, you need to get it back into neutral and then see if the engine will rotate.

Thu Oct 16, 2014 12:10 pm

Do the rear wheels move at all. when jacked off the ground? If not the brake shoes are rusted to the drums. Remove lug bolts, and use a long thin punch with hammer against the brake shoe spines to pop them loose of the drums.

To separate the engine from transaxle:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=413267&highlight=stuck

Thu Oct 16, 2014 12:58 pm

I can get the passenger rear wheel to rotate the smallest amount with a giant breaker bar on the axle nut. The driver's side won't budge.

If it is stuck in two gears, how do I attempt to get it into neutral without removing the transmission from the car and removing the nose cone?

The other thing I forgot to mention in my first post is that both the transmission and engine were bone dry when I went to drain them. There was nothing but dust on all of the drain plugs. I filled them both with Marvel Mystery oil a couple of weeks ago.

Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:07 pm

:?: :idea: Okay, you know your going to pull the engine eventually so start there. Remove the Gen and fan housing exposing the top of the engine...then the intake man with the Carb, then the muffler...cyl tin...get my drift?

Remove spk plugs and spray some Red Tranny oil on top of the pistons and allow to soak.....limited choice there.

Next you could try disconnecting the shift tube coupler and try vice grips (w/o) scoring the shaft and try to work it loose if anything.

Using an Impact on the axle nuts after removing the wheels and backing OFF the adjusters if visible thru the drums might help then some good tapping on the drum to hopefully loosen some rust from the shoes against the drums. Car was on trailer with rolling or NOT rolling wheels?

At this point I would NOT try to remove the trans as it would be a waste in time since the trans grease did not evaporate away (90wt) and maybe it was a REBUILT and DRY. (will not rust if empty)

Ditto with Engine, while an open exhaust valve and open intake valve on opposite side wil allow moisture inside to rust the cyl and combustion chamber inside. Who knows what a PO did in the past and LIED to sell.

Depending on the results with the shift hockey stick depends on next move.

If the wheel/drum turns, one will go forward while the other will go backward.

With the two top and bottom nuts off you might try a heavy duty screwdriver and a crow bar to pry the engine away from the Tranny.....did that route one time way back yrs past.

Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:44 pm

Get as many parts off the top as HRVW mentioned.
Remove starter.. spray penetrating oil like PB Blaster with a straw tip liberally towards the center and transaxle input shaft..
Be patient..
Spray daily for a week or more.

Let the juice do its magic..

.

Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:54 pm

Keep us posted. Sounds like a pain but a story to tell. I really want to see picture as you go. I and many other will be following your progress.

Thu Oct 16, 2014 6:03 pm

eyetzr wrote: The clutch was rust welded to the flywheel, the trans shaft same.

Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:25 pm

Is it possible to remove the engine and swing axle as one assembly? I did not think there was enough room between the frame horns and the rear apron.

Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:35 pm

Once you remove the pair of bolts that hold the rear transaxle cradle the engine and transaxle can drop down and out.

Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:58 pm

Well, after several hours of swearing and taking things apart I finally got the engine and transmission out as one piece. I removed the valve covers to take a quick look and this is what it looked like. My initial thought is to throw the whole assembly in the dumpster and look for something else.

I might get bored and take the heads off and see what it looks like.

Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:17 pm

Now, now, just take it a part and see what you can salvage...

Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:59 am

I'm willing to be there are a ton of reusable parts....but then again I'm not quite mentally stable

Bret

Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:52 am

Ignoring the rust build up on the rockers and valve springs those heads look clean as inside.
not a high use engine thats for sure but dual port heads with single port oil cooler with 10mm head studs isnt a recipe for a good engine.

Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:43 pm

Joel - thanks for that info. I am not as familiar with all of the components. All I know is I have an old industrial engine with unknown parts. I will try and take some more pics tonight for identification help. The fuel pump looked different as well. I am not sure what the original set up was on this engine.