TheSamba.com :: View topic - Yes, But Which? (Skidplate, Pushrod, and Bushings Question)

Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:29 am

Hi, so the Baja is going to be going to run some more rallycrosses this year, ideally at the very rough but very fun course the Poughkeepsie Sports Car Club is running on November 9th.

This leads me to three points:

1. I need a new pushrod tube

2. I need a skidplate

3. I need new suspension bushings

Firstly there's the pushrod tube. The farthest back one on the driver's side looks like it took a rock running recce at the New England Forest Rally and started leaking oil. Like how you crumple a beer can and it gets a little hole in the side.

My problem is I don't know what pushrod tube to buy. I've heard there are some pushrod tubes where you don't need to take off the heads to put in replacements. Are these they?

http://www.mamotorworks.com/VW/product/push-rod-tube-1300cc-1600cc-each_396277

Secondly, having already dented a pushrod tube, I feel I need a skidplate. Again, I'm not sure what I should get. I saw this forum post explaining why I shouldn't have one that bolts to my engine case:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7367038#7367038

but then I looked at the bottom of my engine and I really have no clue what I need, since there's a big tow bar mount in the way. Here is a convenient (and somewhat humorous) look at the bottom of my engine.

What should I get? I was advised to get this:

but I'm not sure it will work.

http://www.pacificcustoms.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Scr...e=baja-bug

Thirdly and finally, the question of bushings and ball joints. I know my front ball joints are worn out and busted, and I figure it would be wise to get new ones at the front and possibly bushings at the rear. Problem: I have no clue how much my car is raised or whatnot. (I think you're picking up a general sense of my noviceness by now). It looks like I need these for the fronts:

http://www.mamotorworks.com/VW/product/ball-joint-kit-for-lowered-cars_306021

and these for the rears:

http://www.mamotorworks.com/VW/product/irs-a-arm-bushing-kit-rear-with-steel-sleeves-black_313294

am I wrong? Are these things I shouldn't bother trying to do myself, or are they feasible for someone without power tools?

Any and all help is appreciated and thank you![/img]

Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:56 am

I suggest those push rods, you do have to take the heads off though. The spring loaded ones leak.

You should have some sled tins down there, you would have less bent tubes.
http://www.jbugs.com/product/8949.html?Category_Code=vw-heaters-channels-kits

But I wouldn't get that skid plate, because of that thread. I would ditch the tow bar, get a cage that comes down low enough that you can fasten a plate to it that goes up to the tunnel.

Fri Oct 17, 2014 2:51 pm

Brian wrote: I suggest those push rods, you do have to take the heads off though. The spring loaded ones leak.

you mean these things?

http://www.mamotorworks.com/VW/product/single-replacement-tube-with-seals_300300

Fri Oct 17, 2014 3:00 pm

Those leak. Good for emergency repairs I hear. But the stock ones, seams up, should be good to go.

Though people do run those successfully, I wouldn't. Personal choice.

Fri Oct 17, 2014 4:15 pm

I personally do not like the spring loaded pushrod tubes, they can leak. This is the style that I prefer for one bent tube.

http://www.jbugs.com/product/4011BP.html?Category_Code=vw-bugpack-pushrods-tubes

What Brian failed to tell you is that in order to replace a stock style pushrod tube, You MUST pull the head. I wouldn't do that just for one tube. Also, no amount of stock engine tin will keep you from damage due to impacts. For your type of fun, I would mount a skid plate. However, for you to do this right, you will need to have access to a welder. I have had quite a lot of VW experience, both on the road and off road. From the looks of the conditions that you run in, a skid plate is wise insurance.

However, NEVER mount the skid plate to the engine. You are trying to protect it, so it should not be in any way, part of the mounting system. The skid plate that you showed, could be modified to work for you. Instead of the rear mounting to the engine, Make your own mounting tabs, whether off of the hitch, or off of the rear bumper. However, I prefer a skid plate that does not have any holes in it. If there are not any holes, and you strike an object, you tend to glide over it. However, if there are holes in it, you can actually get hung up, due to something, rock root etc, getting wedged into the opening.

Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:06 am

Multi69s wrote: I personally do not like the spring loaded pushrod tubes, they can leak. This is the style that I prefer for one bent tube.

http://www.jbugs.com/product/4011BP.html?Category_Code=vw-bugpack-pushrods-tubes

What Brian failed to tell you is that in order to replace a stock style pushrod tube, You MUST pull the head. I wouldn't do that just for one tube.

Thanks, so my question is: with that kind of pushrod tube you linked to on jbugs, I could put in a new pushrod tube without needing to pull the head. But will I still need to pull the head to get the old one out?

Also, I'll call up a rally car shop I know, and see what a skidplate costs from them. Thanks!

Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:27 am

I guess my post wasn't too clear.

Replacing a stock tube means taking the head off, taking the rod out and putting a new tube in place.

If you want to remove a stock tube for good, you remove the push rod and then tear out (carefully) the old tube. Then you can put the spring loaded tube on, then put the push rod in.

Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:30 pm

Brian wrote: If you want to remove a stock tube for good, you remove the push rod and then tear out (carefully) the old tube. Then you can put the spring loaded tube on, then put the push rod in.

So, to take out my old broken tube and put in this new tube:

http://www.jbugs.com/product/4011BP.html?Category_Code=vw-bugpack-pushrods-tubes

I will not have to take off the head? Is that correct?

Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:46 pm

Correct. you can destroy the old tube carefully. don't scratch anything up, just take out the push rod itself and then remove the tube. Those spring loaded ones are meant to be a quick-fix when you're stuck on the side of the trail.

Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:25 am

Raphael Orlove wrote: Hi, so the Baja is going to be going to run some more rallycrosses this year, ideally at the very rough but very fun course the Poughkeepsie Sports Car Club is running on November 9th.

This leads me to three points:

1. I need a new pushrod tube

2. I need a skidplate

3. I need new suspension bushings

Firstly there's the pushrod tube. The farthest back one on the driver's side looks like it took a rock running recce at the New England Forest Rally and started leaking oil. Like how you crumple a beer can and it gets a little hole in the side.

My problem is I don't know what pushrod tube to buy. I've heard there are some pushrod tubes where you don't need to take off the heads to put in replacements. Are these they?

http://www.mamotorworks.com/VW/product/push-rod-tube-1300cc-1600cc-each_396277

Secondly, having already dented a pushrod tube, I feel I need a skidplate. Again, I'm not sure what I should get. I saw this forum post explaining why I shouldn't have one that bolts to my engine case:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7367038#7367038

but then I looked at the bottom of my engine and I really have no clue what I need, since there's a big tow bar mount in the way. Here is a convenient (and somewhat humorous) look at the bottom of my engine.

What should I get? I was advised to get this:

but I'm not sure it will work.

http://www.pacificcustoms.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Scr...e=baja-bug

Thirdly and finally, the question of bushings and ball joints. I know my front ball joints are worn out and busted, and I figure it would be wise to get new ones at the front and possibly bushings at the rear. Problem: I have no clue how much my car is raised or whatnot. (I think you're picking up a general sense of my noviceness by now). It looks like I need these for the fronts:

http://www.mamotorworks.com/VW/product/ball-joint-kit-for-lowered-cars_306021

and these for the rears:

http://www.mamotorworks.com/VW/product/irs-a-arm-bushing-kit-rear-with-steel-sleeves-black_313294

am I wrong? Are these things I shouldn't bother trying to do myself, or are they feasible for someone without power tools?

Any and all help is appreciated and thank you![/img]

Your 1st issue is the mode of operation. You seem to need skidplates on the sides and roof of your Baja Bug!

Northeasterners like Noo Yowkas tend to lack sunshine, and thus think convertibles are a good thing. We in truly sunny places like SoCal know that sunshine gets hot and shade is called for; unless it happens to rain, when one needs coverage for that. So we tend to not go for convertibles.

You, on the other hand, have gone for a different style...
The INVERTIBLE!

Now as to skidplates on the side most would consider the bottom. DEFINITELY DO NOT MOUNT A SKIDPLATE TO THE ENGINE!!! Even if that is what was intended by the skidplate designer 45 years ago.

The skidplate you link to is good.

They're available from many sources. Don't worry about snagging the drain holes. But don't think those drain holes actually will let you change your oil either. I've been serious offroading with a similar skidplate since that was a pretty new design and NEVER snagged one of the holes.

You can turn those L-brackets around so the vertical part is outboard to mount to the existing tow hitch. You could also install a regular Baja rear bumper.

Then the vertical legs of the brackets should fit right to the outside of the lower tubes of the bumper and you can drill a horizontal hole through the bumper for a mounting bolt. It's worked for me for decades. just watch that the oil filter dos not hit the bumper cage.

I do not recommend those ball joints. They are thin on the stem under the ball to allow more angle, but because of that they are weak. Several people have told me of having them fail on mostly stock Bugs driven only on the street. Just get stock ball joints.

Your ride height and suspension overall appears to be virtually (if not entirely) stock.

Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:44 pm

dustymojave wrote: I do not recommend those ball joints. They are thin on the stem under the ball to allow more angle, but because of that they are weak. Several people have told me of having them fail on mostly stock Bugs driven only on the street. Just get stock ball joints.

Your ride height and suspension overall appears to be virtually (if not entirely) stock.

Ok, so I'll need a pair of these

http://www.mamotorworks.com/VW/product/ball-joint-lower-left-or-right-353798

and a pair of these

http://www.mamotorworks.com/VW/product/ball-joint-upper-left-or-right-355219

for the front and just one order of these

http://www.mamotorworks.com/VW/product/irs-a-arm-bushing-kit-rear-with-steel-sleeves-black_313294

for the rear? Is that right? Is replacing bushings a real pain in the ass, or is this something someone without power tools can do?

Thanks again for the advice, the invertible was a surprising but wonderful conversion.

Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:58 am

Yes on the ball joints. those are correct.

The IRs rear suspension bushings are correct too, but it probably is in need of these also,
http://www.mamotorworks.com/VW/product/urethane-grommet-set-rear-spring-plate-4-pieces_308091

http://image.mamotorworksmedia.com/imageproc.aspx?...&w=369

...although they are more work to install than the ones you posted. Replacing them involves removing and re-installing the rear torsions. No fabricating or fancy work. Just look up "re-index rear torsions". It can be done in a home garage with a pair of jack stands, few wrenches, a 3' length of chain, a $10 angle level and a floor jack. unless you want to lower the front suspension while you are at it, re-set the rear torsions to stock angle.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 2:13 pm

dustymojave wrote:
The skidplate you link to is good.

Do you have any idea how thick these EMPI skidplates are? I know I should be going for something 1/8 or 3/16ths thick, but for the life of me I can't find any specs on these skidplates for sale all over the place.

For specificity, I'm discussing a skidplate like this:

http://www.jbugs.com/product/3194.html

Sun Nov 09, 2014 1:14 pm

Here is my skidplate. It is 10 gauge steel. I made a cardboard replica of what I wanted and took it to a shop. Covers everything very well.

Sun Nov 09, 2014 3:43 pm

Nice plate. Nothing to catch, just glide over the rocks or roots :D .