TheSamba.com :: View topic - Help determining 1977 Bus engine displacement

Fri Oct 17, 2014 5:12 pm

Okay, I'm starting a new topic for this post that was in the "Stupid Question" thread.
Left off trying to find the engine number and M code stamp. I found the Engine number: (GD029303)

However, I couldn't the M-Code plate that Tcash said was under the driver side dash. Where is it under there? Because there is a stamp in the windshield and the only numbers under the dash are on the back of the headlight.

Fri Oct 17, 2014 5:40 pm

Go down to Aug 1976. This is the production date when they started building the 1977 model year. That is a 77 fan housing. You need to find the other engine numbers to see if the case is a 77.
Bus VIN / Chassis Numbers

It's going to make you work for this one. It is up under there on the vent.

How about some pictures of the hole bus.

Fri Oct 17, 2014 6:05 pm

Look on top of the fresh air vent for the M plate.

That fan shroud is from a 76-77 2 liter, what it's attached to is anyones guess, without dismantling and measuring you'll never know for sure.

If it's tune up specs and parts you are after the induction system and distributor model is what matters, not the displacement.

Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:56 pm

in 1976-77 it was a 2L engine. Today is 2014, 38 years have passed. As busdaddy said - unless you take it apart you won't know what is really in it. Read the threads here awhile. You will see many of the people who own buses fix them with any part handy that can be made to fit.

Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:07 pm

Well perhaps I should explain why I am trying to get this info and maybe you guys could help me with the problem rather than me trying to guestimate the parts that I need. The engine was fine until a few weeks back when it started making a terrible knocking noise, which from what I gather is a thrown rod :cry: . I'm in high school and I can take it to my school shop to work on it, but I don't have the budget to just buy a crate motor so is there anything I can do to save it? And I can't post any more pictures until Monday or Tuesday

Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:50 pm

You can't do anything until it's apart all over the bench and cleaned up so you can inspect and measure, there is no way to predict what it needs or what will fit.
Start out by investing in a couple books, they'll pay for themselves even during the dismantling process.

Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:45 am

I'd like to give you a simple and positive answer that feels good but now would be a good time to find a mentor who knows VW buses from the late 1970's. If there are none to be found, set some time aside to read the Bentley and Wilson books front cover to back. If you can't do that, store it or sell it. You will also need $4000 - $5000 to solve this problem correctly. I can't be more blunt. If you were my son now would be a good time for father to son bonding working on a car together.

Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:47 am

I found the easiest way to read the M-plate under my dashboard on my 1977 bus was actually to not try to read it. I chose instead to take 1/4 sheets of paper and a dark crayon, and reach up in there and get several blind rubbings until I was able to get a legible tag deciphered. Or stick a digital camera up in there! :D

I am also sorry to say that if your engine knock is a legitimate internal failure finding its way into full bloom, you're in for a long, expensive ride. :shock: You seem to have a GD series 2.0 liter engine which is a nice solid, fuel injected machine when running correctly, but you are somewhat doomed because it will need to pass smog unless your Title and VIN on your bus legally show model year 1975, provided you are still living in Temecula.

It is doubtful that it will pass smog, let alone anything on the highway at this point. You need to ensure the knock really is from inside the engine, and not something stupid like loose external parts slapping around. :oops:

Get ready to spend some serious bank. You have been given solid advice by regular contributors who are respected here. Do begin reading those two books. When you encounter a subject that confuses you, use the Samba search engine with those subjects and you will find many threads by people who have been there before you.

My novice advice, for what it's worth is to:

1) Find a safe, long term place to park your bus, and cover it to keep that blazing-assed Riverside County sun from destroying the interior. You are not going to be driving that for a long time, if you are in high school and it has a serious engine knock. Take all the little nickle and dime shit off of it before you put it in storage to keep dirtbags from parting off your bus to EBay.

2) Now that you are ready to put your bus in storage, and you have read up a lot about this wonderful subject, pull the engine for serious work. Maybe just trying to get it serviceable enough to get you around town? Anyway, now's a great time to get intimately familiar with the powertrain.

OR...

3) Find a GD series long block and rebuild it... allowing a year's time and more money than you think it should cost. Then change out your engine with it when it's time. You will likely find that rebuilding your first engine will give you confidence to rebuild your next engine even better. Why a different engine than the one that's in your bus? Because you will likely find that the core engine you bought is missing important parts, and you will need to rob some parts, like tin, controls, etc. from the engine that's in your bus...and you may come to the conclusion that having a spare engine or two is a great idea for these old buses.

I am hoarding parts I don't currently need as we speak... :roll:

Sat Oct 18, 2014 6:11 am

If you haven't blown it up, with luck you can get by with a crank and rods. This would put your cost of getting it back on the road in the $500 range. The cost of a quality repair that will last for years will likely be much higher. The 1700/1800 engines use a different crank and rods from a 2000L engine so you can't buy until you actually know what you have.

Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:46 am

First thing to do, would be to drain the oil and see if there are any metal shaving in it.

X2 on Tom Wilson's book. Read and completely understand it. If you have any questions. Do a search first, then ask questions here. Good Luck

Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:20 am

Quote: This would put your cost of getting it back on the road in the $500 range

That is probably what the last guy did and why he is having to deal with the issue again.

Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:43 pm

SGKent wrote: Quote: This would put your cost of getting it back on the road in the $500 range

That is probably what the last guy did and why he is having to deal with the issue again.

And if he is in high school that is probably all he has to spend.

Also he has not really described the noise at all, it could well be just a valve train noise of some type.

Sat Oct 18, 2014 2:21 pm

A serious knocking noise is probably one of two things.
One- the connectiong rod bearing is destroyed and the rod is knocking around as it rotates. For this you'll need crank work at the least. Bearings, and rods checked.
Two- one of the valves broke and is destroying the head and piston. Obvious replacements there. And a complete teardown would be highly recommended for that, too, as the rod bearings are probably ruined, too. To check this quickly, pull the spark plugs and look at them. If one looks bad, then pull the rockers and see if the valve stems pop out too far.
Either way, time for an engine tear down. You can pull it, or a lot can be taken off in place if you don't have a jack, then muscled out. Is it an upright or a T4 motor? What year Bus? Also, a lot of good parts can be had used. A good engine/long block might be cheaper at this point, as you're in CA , lots of good parts and people out there. Good luck.

Sat Oct 18, 2014 3:13 pm

Lets not tear the engine down before we trouble shoot the problem. For all we know grandma had hydraulic lifters installed so she wouldn't have to deal with valve adjustments and the only problem he has is a soft lifter. Could well be that the gasohol has caused his valves to hang up in the guides and one of the pushrods dropped out of the socket as well.

Sat Oct 18, 2014 4:12 pm

What could I add to help determine the issue? Like I said I don't really have a budget over like $1500 and I don't know If I can store it for long term work. So at this point I would like to know what exactly is wrong with it. I was driving it when it happened which was kindve a crappy day, went over a hill and had to stop at a light which caused it to overheat. I pushed it off the road and gave it 30-40 mins to cool down and when I started it back up it made a god awful knocking noise ( bang bang bang bang) with every rotation so I turned it off and got a tow. Now it's not as bad of a knocking but it's still consistently there. Damn thing fires right up every time AND passed smog in June. The bus is at my house in Temecula but I can't keep it there due to the (Insert foul language) homeowners associating deeming it an eyesore. So I can possibly pull the engine at school, but then I can't leave it there if my budget runs dry. So if possible I want to just figure out what's wrong first and try and fix it second...
Please help! :(
(I'm going to buy those books you recommended as soon as I get back into town)

Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:46 pm

Let's ask some basic questions that might help us help you.

1) Why did it overheat and how do you know that was the issue? Late bay engines have a fan that is on the crankshaft so they can't fail like an early fan could if a belt broke.

2) Have you maintained your oil level every time you fill up, and what was the oil level the day the knock started?

I apologize for not remembering, but is this an automatic or manual trans bus?

Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:42 am

An audio clip of the engine running would be helpful here.

Sun Oct 19, 2014 9:08 am

I'm not sure what exactly made it overheat but there is no temperature gauge on it so I didn't know until it happened. I was going up a long grade hill but there was a light at the top of it, which conveniently turned red before I could start going down hill. When I slowed down to the light the engine lost compression and died. It's an automatic and im not the one who does maintenance on it so I don't know how recently the oil was changed/ filled up (I was taking it to go do that and a tune up), but when I checked the oil it still was in the green/safe zone on the dipstick. The oil light comes on whenever you slow down but goes off when you speed back up and I was told that was a normal thing. ( I now suspect that's part of the problem). And it is an automatic, not a manual. I will post audio as soon as I am back in town

Sun Oct 19, 2014 9:46 am

Go up to interstate vw and see if Jim has a good used runner.

Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:04 am

notchboy wrote: Go up to interstate vw and see if Jim has a good used runner.

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