TheSamba.com :: View topic - 72 Westy, Woods Since 1974, 42K miles, 1700 Engine Seized

Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:47 am

After finally getting the engine out of my 'free' 72' Westy found that it was seized, so tore it down piece by piece. Drained oil (middle of the line on the dip stick), black but no water or metal shavings of any type. Popped valve covers, seals were perfect everything looked great, no rust, minimal wear. Pulled heads, valves were not rusted just carboned up and as a test poured some gasoline into the upturned heads and left for a few hours no leakage (I realize this is not much of a test, best I can do for now).

The cylinders though had some minimal rust, however can't seem to pull them off the piston, assuming the rings were rusted sprayed all of them with WD40 with blue torch (good stuff).Still can't budge them although two of the cylinders are now loose, just not around the piston. Three of the pistons have a small gap all the way around the outside, #4 does not, this was also the cylinder that had one of the valves partly open so have focused my efforts on freeing this one, more so than the others. I have sprayed, used a rubber mallet, a piece of wood on the piston itself, tapped the jug with a metal hammer all the way around, etc.. Even went back and did this on each cylinder to no avail.

Anyone have any thoughts as to how to get these jugs off so I can determine next step? I will post pictures later today, forgot my phone at home so can't download them as of yet...

Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:58 am

It may be useful to add a comment on if you want to save the pistons and cylinders. If you do, it will require a lot of patience. If not I would suggest lots and lots of heat on the cylinders followed with some calculated firm hits with the sledge.

I've pulled apart pistons from cylinders that I would never have thought would come apart. I used a combination of heat, patience, and the worlds best penetrating oil (kroil).

Good luck!

Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:02 pm

Good point, my goal at present is to save as much as I can for budget reasons. Where do you find Kroil?

Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:07 pm

While you are waiting for the Kroil to show up, try a 50/50 mix of acetone and automatic transmission fluid. Let it soak in there for a while and give it a good solid "whap" with a small 2-3 pound sledge hammer on a block of wood.

Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:10 pm

If the rings are rusted to they cylinders they are junk. Don't even waste your time. There will be pits in the bores that you'll never get out and you will wreck a new set of rings anyway.

You just said you got it for free....you should have a bigger budget than most

Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:24 pm

Agreed on both points.

Heat from a tiger torch on the sides of the barrels is often effective along with penetrant and bashing with a block of wood, just be sure to put sheet metal shields under the studs or better yet remove them first so you don't cook the temper out of them.

Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:40 pm

Hi
If it is rust seizing them, you are going to need to keep soaking them for awhile and giving them a shot with the hammer and wood.

Fri Oct 31, 2014 5:50 pm

I extracted pistons & cylinders on a locked up type 4, (spun main bearing)
if you can get enough clearance to work a socket and u-joint in there to
spin rod nuts loose on one of the "free" pistons, work your way to access
the frozen one, pull it intact so you can clamp it in a vise and turn ATF
loose on it.
Like previously mentioned, it might still be pitted to the point of useless.

Fri Oct 31, 2014 7:28 pm

And if those heads have as few miles on them as you say I'd still send them off to Len or Adrian and at least have them take a close look at them.

Mon Dec 22, 2014 6:04 am

After weeks/months of soaking with suggested mixtures and heating to varying degrees still have had no success removing cylinders from pistons, broke a few fins along the way :(. My goal is simple want to determine what condition the rest of the engine is in as again only has 42K original miles... Anyone ever rig up some sort of puller to do this or does it make more sense to cut them off in some manner?

At this point I realize that not going to be able to save the cylinders but now worried that I won't be able to replace them as after looking at the various part suppliers most no longer have the direct replacement for a 1700 but rather offer the 1800 or 2000. I don't believe the 1800 can be utilized without modifying the heads, or at least the valves, can anyone provide more details on this?

Thanks

Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:20 am

Tcash wrote: Hi
If it is rust seizing them, you are going to need to keep soaking them for awhile and giving them a shot with the hammer and wood.

This is the stuff.
marvel mystery oil

Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:06 pm

Heritage are listing as expecting 1700 p&c's in stock in a week, cip 1 show them as being in stock...you have options.

Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:14 pm

Moving up to an 1800 gives a big step up in torque and cost only a little more compared to a 1700, you just need to have the heads opened up to accept the larger diameter cylinders.

Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:55 pm

Check the classifiers here. 1700 p&C's come up regularly, So do new sets of rings. At this point, to get off the cylinders it is time to get a bigger hammer. Or just split the case as it sits, reach in and unbolt the rods as best you can. Be careful withe cam and crank, get some cloth or blocks in there to hold them safely and protect the bearings. Then when everything is apart you can get the pistons out any way you can to save the rods. Not a fun way to do it, but there you are.

Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:56 pm

Wildthings wrote: Moving up to an 1800 gives a big step up in torque and cost only a little more compared to a 1700, you just need to have the heads opened up to accept the larger diameter cylinders. X2

Thu Jan 08, 2015 8:58 am

Finally was able to get back to the engine last night, and meant business. So with a combination of small cutting wheel, a rubber mallet, an air hammer and BFH got the cylinders off one by one... Amazing no cuts, bruises or scratches to mention, not normal for me. As I had hoped the engine turns over freely at this point, i.e. no apparent damage to crank or rods.

It was late but took a quick look at the case internals and was pleasantly surprised to see that it was in fairly good shape. As I mentioned earlier the engine was full of oil, when drained it was black but no metal parts or pieces to be seen. The question is with 42K original miles do I go further (never split a case before) or put it back together with the new set of pistons, rings, cylinders that I just received? I realize there is no easy answer to this and yes I know, pictures would be helpful, I will post a few later today...

Thoughts?

Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:04 am

udidwht, you mention Len or Adrian below as related to the heads, unfortunately my apologies but not sure who they are??? I assume they can be contacted through the forums? As I said the heads look to be in great shape however would appreciate an expert taking a look and doing whatever is necessary...

"And if those heads have as few miles on them as you say I'd still send them off to Len or Adrian and at least have them take a close look at them."

Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:07 am

Look thru the cylinder holes to see the condition of the cam lobes and pull a lifter looking at the face.

If those are good then run it.

Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:21 am

Adrian at www.headflowmasters.com

Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:18 am

http://www.hamincgroup.com/main.php

Hoffman Automotive