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BDR Loves Baja Mon Nov 03, 2014 5:31 pm

I have a 64 baja bug with a irs rear end and i want to know how/what to do to increase rear suspension travel. I bought the car with a 3 1/2 inch front lift so i would like to even the car out. i currently have kyb gas shocks i think that are completely useless in the rear and need to be replaced my current shock lenght is 13 compressed and 17 at full droop i can post pictures later if needed.[/img]

Mal evolent Mon Nov 03, 2014 6:18 pm

you increase travel with a longer lever. this increases height. this increases the probability of a rollover. so you make it wider while you make it taller by putting on longer levers.

the wheels attach to the back of these longer levers. which requires longer drive axles and more agile CV joints

search for 3X3 trailing arms.

Vanapplebomb Mon Nov 03, 2014 8:32 pm

It would be helpful to know how much travel you are looking to get, and what you would use your baja for. Bashing around the woods works well with stock length arms modified for a little extra travel. It isn't hard or all that expensive to push 8-9 inches out of stock arms with a little work. Racing the baja 1000, not so much... Tell us a little big about what you wan't to do with your ride then we could give you realistic answers.

VWCOOL Mon Nov 03, 2014 8:41 pm

Do you mean ride height or overall travel? Some people get mixed up...

A ride height increase can give longer 'effective' travel for bumps; Extra overall travel will require mods to the chassis (spring plate bottom stop) and a longer damper

There is a limit with standard torsion bars; they don't like being over-driven

BDR Loves Baja Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:27 pm

VWCOOL wrote: Do you mean ride height or overall travel? Some people get mixed up...

A ride height increase can give longer 'effective' travel for bumps; Extra overall travel will require mods to the chassis (spring plate bottom stop) and a longer damper

There is a limit with standard torsion bars; they don't like being over-driven

Vanapplebomb wrote: It would be helpful to know how much travel you are looking to get, and what you would use your baja for. Bashing around the woods works well with stock length arms modified for a little extra travel. It isn't hard or all that expensive to push 8-9 inches out of stock arms with a little work. Racing the baja 1000, not so much... Tell us a little big about what you wan't to do with your ride then we could give you realistic answers.

first question
The way is sits now is face up ass down and i want to level it out so when im going up a hill im not staring at the sky or when im driving at night for my headlights to hit the road

second question
It would be a daily driver and i would take it out on trails out in the desert everyonce and a while. i was looking to try to get at least 8-10 inches of rear travel.

side note im not rolling in cash i am a high school student who has wanted a bug since i was 5 and they run in the family but everyone who has one is a show bug or a drag bug

HERC Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:18 am

Pull off spring plates, notch em, put em back on at a steeper angle. Buy two of these for 250 total. http://www.pacificcustoms.com/ac525200t.html .
re drill you lower shock mount holes an inch higher.
Buy two type 2 flanges and two type 2 conversion stub axles for type 1

Keep the kyb gas shocks, there good.
You should be about as high as you can be using stock levers, as Mal says.

It's that simple.

HERC Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:28 am

76 bucks for these http://www.appletreeauto.com/TYPE-1-TO-TYPE-2-DRIVE-FLANGE-AC525106/

89 a piece for these http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Conversion-Stub-Axle-Type-2-CVs-in-Type-1-16-2305-p/16-2305.htm

You'll be about 500 bucks deep for some decent shit. You could make that kind of money holding up a sign

Mal evolent Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:34 am

more accurately: buy two Thing CV flanges. Things used Type 4 CVs, which can work at higher angles than Type 2 and much higher angles than Type 4

Type 2 CV flanges are designed for Type 2 transaxles which have bigger output shafts than Type 1. Thing CV flanges interface Type 1 transaxle output shafts with Type 4 CVs

http://www.mooreparts.com/1377-AC525106/

http://www.mooreparts.com/1375-AC525101/

The axles linked in the post above are designed for Type 4 CVs, which are thicker than Type 1 CVs. Type 1 axles work, but not as well as proper Thing axles. You can put circlips on those thing drive axles when using Type 4 CVs.

regarding notching spring plates: Not me. VWs are engineered by German engineers. American engineers over engineer, German engineers engineer. German engineers put in just enough material. not wise to reduce a finely engineered German part

http://atomwerk.org/Drop_and_Raise_Plates.html

the effect of notching without reducing material.

1/4" notch lets you lift 1". for a 3" lift you need to notch 3/4" of spring steel put there by decree of German engineers.

HERC Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:43 am

The Germans engineered themselves right into a wall of over engineered P-51's 8)

VWCOOL Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:24 pm

BDR a good start will be to simply lift the rear a little to level out the car without
a) spending dollars, or
b) modifying anything

I've built/tweaked 'standard' cars with 14-inches ground clearance

Vanapplebomb Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:18 pm

Mal evolent wrote:
regarding notching spring plates: Not me. VWs are engineered by German engineers. American engineers over engineer, German engineers engineer. German engineers put in just enough material. not wise to reduce a finely engineered German part

I wouldn't notch on a racing vehicle, but for bashing around the woods on weekends, it works. Better yet, get dual spring plates from a Type 3 or an early irs bug and notch only the inner plate. Even when notched it will still be stronger than the later bug spring plates without. Just give it a generous radius and you won't have any issues.

HERC Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:47 am

Exactly what I'll be doing to my duals, applebombermango. 8)

BDR Loves Baja Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:55 am

So what im getting is that i notch the sprin plates but dont get bigger shocks

Mal evolent Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:22 am

if you notch the springplates you get more travel, which allows you to get more height. if you get more travel you need longer shocks

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=454452

if you use the Atomwerx sping plates in the link above, you get more height but not more travel. use stock shocks with Atomwerx plates

ORANGECRUSHer Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:45 pm

shocks have nothing to do with ride height.

cheapest thing would be to get rid of that 3-1/2" lift on the front. PO probably got cold feet when he realized how expensive it was going to be to do the rear. Ask how I know.

BDR Loves Baja Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:43 pm

ORANGECRUSHer wrote: shocks have nothing to do with ride height.

cheapest thing would be to get rid of that 3-1/2" lift on the front. PO probably got cold feet when he realized how expensive it was going to be to do the rear. Ask how I know.

The front shocks are good though its the rear shocks that need to be replaced and i wanted to level out the car in the process

ORANGECRUSHer Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:48 pm

Are your spring plates touching the perches?
I think the quickest easiest way is the atomwerks plates but their gonna cost ya $500. Once you get them installed you can measure for the shocks or ask them what they suggest. You can go to Rancho's site and go through their list of shock specs and find the measurement you need extended length being the most important. Get something that allows an extra 1/2" to avoid damage.

Vanapplebomb Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:33 pm

Mal evolent wrote: if you notch the springplates you get more travel, which allows you to get more height. if you get more travel you need longer shocks

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=454452

if you use the Atomwerx sping plates in the link above, you get more height but not more travel. use stock shocks with Atomwerx plates

Atomwerks would like you to think that they are a bolt on fix, but that couldn't be farther from the truth.

To use them you need all the same stuff you would need to notch spring plates 3/8 - 1/2 an inch.

-Type 2/4 cv joints
-Shortened aftermarket axles (or turned down stock axles)
-Conversion/Thing transmission drive flanges
-Conversion/Thing/Porsche 924/Porsche (non turbo) 944 stub axles
-Longer shocks (but could fabricate new shock mounts for Atomwerks spring plates to use stock shocks)

To compare your two options:
*Atomwerks
-A couple inches of lift
-ZERO increase in travel
-More $$$ because you had to buy those expensive lift spring plates

*Notch stock plates (duals are best)
-A couple inches of lift
-A couple additional inches of travel for better off roading
-Less $$$ because you didn't have to buy the expensive lift spring plates.
-Still less $$$ even if you convert to the factory dual spring plates for the extra strength (assuming you don't already have them) because they are still MUCH cheaper to buy than the lift spring plates

So, why would you bother with the lift spring plates?

I prefer modifications that can be done on a budget and that increase performance. Notching the spring plates satisfies both of those, Atomwerks satisfies neither of them.

Leave the Atomwerks spring plates for the lowered/slammed car crowd.

Brian Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:08 pm

Now what happens when you buy lift plates and remove the bottom stop for the spring plate and only use limiting straps?

Vanapplebomb Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:28 pm

Well, that depends on how you set the limit straps and how much you let it drop. You could get more travel, but your axle/trailing arm angles would be ridiculous at full drop.



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