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Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:30 pm

1970Hardtop camper with 1641cc dp motor. Today I just changed my gear oil after coming home from a long trip last weekend I started to hear a loud whining noise while driving in 4th gear. It became noticeable in every gear within the next few days and can be heard louder while coasting in gear. I checked the fluid and confirmed it was topped off yesterday but I've never had any transmission issues in this bus. None of the gears grind and it shifts smoothly and doesnt pop out of gear. Well today I bought some 75-90 synthetic gear oil and changed the fluid but when the old stuff was draining it came out super thin (and I only drove it to fill up gas before draining it so it wasnt even hot), and it looked extremely dirty with bubbles/foamy appearance to it. There werent any chunks or flakes on the plug at all but the fluid did look a little shimmery. After the fresh fluid in and drove a few miles the problem noises still persists. Could this possibly be a throwout or pilot bearing issue? And what causes the fluid to look like that?

Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:39 pm

JQ wrote: 1970Hardtop camper with 1641cc dp motor. Today I just changed my gear oil after coming home from a long trip last weekend I started to hear a loud whining noise while driving in 4th gear. It became noticeable in every gear within the next few days and can be heard louder while coasting in gear. I checked the fluid and confirmed it was topped off yesterday but I've never had any transmission issues in this bus. None of the gears grind and it shifts smoothly and doesnt pop out of gear. Well today I bought some 75-90 synthetic gear oil and changed the fluid but when the old stuff was draining it came out super thin (and I only drove it to fill up gas before draining it so it wasnt even hot), and it looked extremely dirty with bubbles/foamy appearance to it. There werent any chunks or flakes on the plug at all but the fluid did look a little shimmery. After the fresh fluid in and drove a few miles the problem noises still persists. Could this possibly be a throwout or pilot bearing issue? And what causes the fluid to look like that?

Did the old oil look milky?

How long have you had this thing? Sounds like the wrong oil for a manual transmission was in it.

Looks like you are going to put the correct oil for a manual transmission in it.

Because it's a manual transmission. Right?

Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:46 pm

I use StaLube GL-4 in my '69 camper. Some FLAPS people will tell you GL-5 is ok. TheSambans will tell you GL-5 is bad for the brass. I found StaLube GL-4 at a NAPA store. It is also available on Amazon.

Aloha
tp

Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:53 pm

Tom Powell wrote: I use StaLube GL-4 in my '69 camper. Some FLAPS people will tell you GL-5 is ok. TheSambans will tell you GL-5 is bad for the brass. I found StaLube GL-4 at a NAPA store. It is also available on Amazon.

Aloha
tp

Many GL-5s are specifically formulated to be safe for yellow metals, and say so.

Methinks it's an OMG!! whose time is passing.

Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:11 pm

PITApan wrote: JQ wrote: 1970Hardtop camper with 1641cc dp motor. Today I just changed my gear oil after coming home from a long trip last weekend I started to hear a loud whining noise while driving in 4th gear. It became noticeable in every gear within the next few days and can be heard louder while coasting in gear. I checked the fluid and confirmed it was topped off yesterday but I've never had any transmission issues in this bus. None of the gears grind and it shifts smoothly and doesnt pop out of gear. Well today I bought some 75-90 synthetic gear oil and changed the fluid but when the old stuff was draining it came out super thin (and I only drove it to fill up gas before draining it so it wasnt even hot), and it looked extremely dirty with bubbles/foamy appearance to it. There werent any chunks or flakes on the plug at all but the fluid did look a little shimmery. After the fresh fluid in and drove a few miles the problem noises still persists. Could this possibly be a throwout or pilot bearing issue? And what causes the fluid to look like that?

Did the old oil look milky?

How long have you had this thing? Sounds like the wrong oil for a manual transmission was in it.

Looks like you are going to put the correct oil for a manual transmission in it.

Because it's a manual transmission. Right?

What do you mean by milky? The old oil was very dark and had these foamy bubbles suspended in it.

I've been driving this bus with the same transmission for almost 5 years now with no problems whatsoever. Oh I forgot to mention as well that I changed the oil not even 10kmiles and 2 years ago with Dino 80-90 gear oil.

Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:12 pm

PITApan wrote: Tom Powell wrote: I use StaLube GL-4 in my '69 camper. Some FLAPS people will tell you GL-5 is ok. TheSambans will tell you GL-5 is bad for the brass. I found StaLube GL-4 at a NAPA store. It is also available on Amazon.

Aloha
tp

Many GL-5s are specifically formulated to be safe for yellow metals, and say so.

Methinks it's an OMG!! whose time is passing.

Thats actually not true...and unknowable for those who formulate the oil.
For the most part all they can speak to is modern cars from the last 20 years.

The problem that is happening is the older alloys....before 1999-2000 when after a California lawsuit over lead content in brass (because the llead in brass key blanks)...brass that had nothing to do with automotive work....most of the brass mills dropped lead in favor of silicon. Both are alloyed in to make brass more machinable for fine detail.

The sad part is that you cannot recycle silicon brass with other brass.

Also alloying ingredients of Tin and aluminum are also used in certain brass. alloys.

The issue with gear oils and older brass alloys has to do with molecular polarity and the reaction with PH/acidity of the oils. In particular as oils age and even worse when they entrain water from condensation...the PH changes and will etch some brass alloys.

Which ones?...dont know. Which ones do you or I have?...Not sure.

What the gear oil companies have done with modern GL-5s is to add PH stabilization additives into them. Do they work forever?....no chemical additive does.

You are probably safe if you change your gear oils with better frequency than the factory suggests...which originally was at 30k and then never ....and with modern cars is never.

High sulfur gear oils like those in PTO's and steering gear boxes have an even worse problem with PH etching than GL-4's and 5's. This is why many gear filled PTO's and steering gearboxes have at least one part inside that is copper or copper plated as a sacrificial anode to deplete rising acid levels.

If you want I cant post a picture of one of the sacrifical anodes I recently found inside a steering box. Ray

Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:46 pm

raygreenwood wrote: PITApan wrote: Tom Powell wrote: I use StaLube GL-4 in my '69 camper. Some FLAPS people will tell you GL-5 is ok. TheSambans will tell you GL-5 is bad for the brass. I found StaLube GL-4 at a NAPA store. It is also available on Amazon.

Aloha
tp

Many GL-5s are specifically formulated to be safe for yellow metals, and say so.

Methinks it's an OMG!! whose time is passing.

Thats actually not true...and unknowable for those who formulate the oil.
For the most part all they can speak to is modern cars from the last 20 years.

The problem that is happening is the older alloys....before 1999-2000 when after a California lawsuit over lead content in brass (because the llead in brass key blanks)...brass that had nothing to do with automotive work....most of the brass mills dropped lead in favor of silicon. Both are alloyed in to make brass more machinable for fine detail.

The sad part is that you cannot recycle silicon brass with other brass.

Also alloying ingredients of Tin and aluminum are also used in certain brass. alloys.

The issue with gear oils and older brass alloys has to do with molecular polarity and the reaction with PH/acidity of the oils. In particular as oils age and even worse when they entrain water from condensation...the PH changes and will etch some brass alloys.

Which ones?...dont know. Which ones do you or I have?...Not sure.

What the gear oil companies have done with modern GL-5s is to add PH stabilization additives into them. Do they work forever?....no chemical additive does.

You are probably safe if you change your gear oils with better frequency than the factory suggests...which originally was at 30k and then never ....and with modern cars is never.

High sulfur gear oils like those in PTO's and steering gear boxes have an even worse problem with PH etching than GL-4's and 5's. This is why many gear filled PTO's and steering gearboxes have at least one part inside that is copper or copper plated as a sacrificial anode to deplete rising acid levels.

If you want I cant post a picture of one of the sacrifical anodes I recently found inside a steering box. Ray

No Ray. It is tested. The test consists of suspending strips of alloy in hot oil for certain periods of time and looking for etching and changes in the oil.. The test has a name and I believe a number. You can look it up. It is a standard. I already did. If they say safe for yellow metals either it is or they lie.

Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:00 pm

JQ wrote: PITApan wrote: JQ wrote: 1970Hardtop camper with 1641cc dp motor. Today I just changed my gear oil after coming home from a long trip last weekend I started to hear a loud whining noise while driving in 4th gear. It became noticeable in every gear within the next few days and can be heard louder while coasting in gear. I checked the fluid and confirmed it was topped off yesterday but I've never had any transmission issues in this bus. None of the gears grind and it shifts smoothly and doesnt pop out of gear. Well today I bought some 75-90 synthetic gear oil and changed the fluid but when the old stuff was draining it came out super thin (and I only drove it to fill up gas before draining it so it wasnt even hot), and it looked extremely dirty with bubbles/foamy appearance to it. There werent any chunks or flakes on the plug at all but the fluid did look a little shimmery. After the fresh fluid in and drove a few miles the problem noises still persists. Could this possibly be a throwout or pilot bearing issue? And what causes the fluid to look like that?

Did the old oil look milky?

How long have you had this thing? Sounds like the wrong oil for a manual transmission was in it.

Looks like you are going to put the correct oil for a manual transmission in it.

Because it's a manual transmission. Right?

What do you mean by milky? The old oil was very dark and had these foamy bubbles suspended in it.

I've been driving this bus with the same transmission for almost 5 years now with no problems whatsoever. Oh I forgot to mention as well that I changed the oil not even 10kmiles and 2 years ago with Dino 80-90 gear oil.

Milky means milky. Unmistakeable. Water contamination.

Dark oil is generally burned or rirt contamination. The bubbles would be water. If they can be cooked out, definitely water. Try heating a small quantity of oil with bubbles on the stove.

Did you buy a quantity of oil and store it for years where it could freeze?

At any rate if the tranny is whining it's unhappy. Do not drive. If fresh oil does not resolve it then it needs to come out for a tear down. A bad bearing will get so hot it turns blue, welds, spins in it's bore. All the while frying the oil in contact with it.

Sorry guy, this one don't look like a simple fix at this point.

Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:43 pm

PITApan wrote: JQ wrote: PITApan wrote: JQ wrote: 1970Hardtop camper with 1641cc dp motor. Today I just changed my gear oil after coming home from a long trip last weekend I started to hear a loud whining noise while driving in 4th gear. It became noticeable in every gear within the next few days and can be heard louder while coasting in gear. I checked the fluid and confirmed it was topped off yesterday but I've never had any transmission issues in this bus. None of the gears grind and it shifts smoothly and doesnt pop out of gear. Well today I bought some 75-90 synthetic gear oil and changed the fluid but when the old stuff was draining it came out super thin (and I only drove it to fill up gas before draining it so it wasnt even hot), and it looked extremely dirty with bubbles/foamy appearance to it. There werent any chunks or flakes on the plug at all but the fluid did look a little shimmery. After the fresh fluid in and drove a few miles the problem noises still persists. Could this possibly be a throwout or pilot bearing issue? And what causes the fluid to look like that?

Did the old oil look milky?

How long have you had this thing? Sounds like the wrong oil for a manual transmission was in it.

Looks like you are going to put the correct oil for a manual transmission in it.

Because it's a manual transmission. Right?

What do you mean by milky? The old oil was very dark and had these foamy bubbles suspended in it.

I've been driving this bus with the same transmission for almost 5 years now with no problems whatsoever. Oh I forgot to mention as well that I changed the oil not even 10kmiles and 2 years ago with Dino 80-90 gear oil.

Milky means milky. Unmistakeable. Water contamination.

Dark oil is generally burned or rirt contamination. The bubbles would be water. If they can be cooked out, definitely water. Try heating a small quantity of oil with bubbles on the stove.

Did you buy a quantity of oil and store it for years where it could freeze?

At any rate if the tranny is whining it's unhappy. Do not drive. If fresh oil does not resolve it then it needs to come out for a tear down. A bad bearing will get so hot it turns blue, welds, spins in it's bore. All the while frying the oil in contact with it.

Sorry guy, this one don't look like a simple fix at this point.

I'll take a picture of a sample I caught in a jar.

No to the freezing. When I changed it previously it was fresh from the store same day and don't live in a freeze climate.

Hmmm I see. Is it feasible to rebuild/Replace those bearings on my own or should I leave that up to the experts? Also is it possible that it could just be the input shaft bearing or is there a way to pinpoint more accurately which bearing (s) are the problem.?

Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:02 pm

JQ wrote:
I'll take a picture of a sample I caught in a jar.

No to the freezing. When I changed it previously it was fresh from the store same day and don't live in a freeze climate.

Hmmm I see. Is it feasible to rebuild/Replace those bearings on my own or should I leave that up to the experts? Also is it possible that it could just be the input shaft bearing or is there a way to pinpoint more accurately which bearing (s) are the problem.?

You could certainly take it apart and look. But you would not know everything to look at, evaluate, measure.

On doing your own tranny work, consider:

Billy-Bob just opened his shop and he's aiming to do VW trannies. But he's never done one, doesn't even have the special tools required, much less any experience. But he has a manual and he's eager to learn---on your transmission. He's sharp in general and pretty cheap.

Fritz has been running his shop for 30 years, has done thousands of transmissions, knows what will last and what will need replacing at a glance and has 4 transmissions sitting on the shelf fully redone and ready to swap into busses. He is not cheap---you pay for the 30 years experience, and his warranty.

Who do you take your transmission to?

Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:41 am

Here is that pic I promised of what the old oil looked like when it came out. Really nasty and very thin like motor oil consistency.

After it settled for a few hours I noticed all the metal that sank to the bottom. Nothing was on the magnet drain plug so its a nonferrous metal. Does that give any indication of a more precise diagnostic?

And I hear what youre saying PITApan and after thinking about it I agree with what youre implying. I am able to do 90% of the work on my bus and have but transmissions and differentials are out of my ballpark. So with all that said and done, does anyone have any recommendations for a rebuilt tranny in CA?

Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:40 am

Hi there,
I'm in San Diego and I see you're in Vacaville which is near the bay area. As far as shops to take your transmission to near you I can't think of any. There are a couple down my way, Rancho and Transworks. There is a guy in Oakland that parts out a lot of buses. He might have a used transmission for you but that's a gamble. A rebuild is roughly $850 depending on what parts are needed. If you stopped driving in time and didn't cause further damage you might get lucky. Transmission work requires special tools and knowledge. I wouldn't attempt it myself. I don't know what to tell you. If you don't find a shop in your area you better start looking for a good transmission you can buy and have shipped to you. They really aren't very heavy. Plan on rebuilding your drive axles while the tranny is out. Order up a set (4) of new boots with grease and bolts. About $15 each.

Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:49 am

Metals in suspension falling out of suspension...especially small particle metals.....is an indication of floculation. Floculation is typically caused by an increase in acidity (drop in PH). This can bee caused generally by an influx of water either through leakage or condensation.

Go to the hardware or a pharmacy and buy some PH test strips and dip one in the oil. Typically gear oil is in the 8 or 9 PH range for Gl-4 (if memory serves ...I will have to check that) which is slightly corrosive.

The problem that can happen is that when moisture is en-trained in the gear oil...extra oxygen gets involved. And...you also start getting galvanic issues among alloys as film strength separating them drops. The acid level can rise....and the fluid turns thin as thickening additives turn to sludge by bonding to other ions and drop out suspension or plate themselves to metals surfaces with the right ionic charge.

In short the gear oil is ccontaminated.

PITapan.....as per the previous post....NO.... they have not done adequate testing of the gear oils or else there would not STILL be wide spread problems on older cars. There are few if any issues with newer cars and newer alloys.

1. The only ASTM based tests are actually looking for copper alloy corrosion testing of which brass and bronze fit in loosely. The tests they do use are derivative tests.

2. The problem with ALL of these tests is that they only test for parameters that can be rapidly accelerated by either heat and cold cycling, electrical charge change/flux, shear thinning or contamination.

3. What no accelerated wear or age testing in the world can do...and I know because I do accelerated age testing for a living......is simulate actual time based oxidization of chemical and metallurgical components.

4. The changes due to natural charge related metallic oxidization to gear oils happen slowly...typically 2-3 years in early oils (1950s) and 5-7 years in the GL-4 era...and 7-10 years in GL-5.

5. You cannot simulate or test for that in ANY accelerated aging or wear system. Its real world time only.

The pre- GL-4 and GL-4 oils originally suffered from acidity issues (low PH over time).

The fix for this was a higher rate of sulferization among other ingredients. This also increased shock load protection and corrosion protected ferrous metals better.
However, over time these additives were harder on yellow metals because it made gear oil PH excessively HIGH.
Corrosion is corrosion whether its caused by high or low PH.

The primary aim of testing for the gear oils for GL-5 was not for better anti-corrosion properties for older obsolete vehicle. It was for NEWER vehicles and alloys.....primarily in the quest to extend the oil change interval to "LIFETIME LUBRICATE"...which means never having to change it.

The primary tests (or actually variations of these tests) are ASTM D-130 copper strip test and alternately use of the ASTM D5844-11d stationary device bench test and ASTM D6557 ball rust test....to test decreasing lubrication value simultaneously while checking for the corrosion issue.

There is still a lot of evidence out there from good sources that the GL-5 oils (all of which are not the same just because they meet a single GL standard)...still has corrosion issues that are time related with some brass and bronze alloys.

From what I am hearing,, I think most of that would be a non-issue if we just adjusted the oil change interval. But they have by no means tested this enough to "fix" the issue. Ray

Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:04 am

It would be nice to know which oil your were running. Redline recommends that several of their GL-4 oils not be used in transaxles as they don't give adequate protection. Other oils may have problems with foaming and such.

Also FWIW a 80-90wt gear oil has about the same viscosity as a 10w40 motor oil.

Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:05 pm

Wildthings wrote: It would be nice to know which oil your were running. Redline recommends that several of their GL-4 oils not be used in transaxles as they don't give adequate protection. Other oils may have problems with foaming and such.

Also FWIW a 80-90wt gear oil has about the same viscosity as a 10w40 motor oil.

Thats cool....you are one of the few people on these forums that I have seen that actually noticed that.
Technically its viscosity as measured with a standard spindle type viscometer is is very similar to mid weight motor oils.....however....the flow rate and tack level (both are rela5ed to high shear stability liquids) of gear oil is much higher with gear oil. These differences are typically tested with a cone and plate type rheometer.
Also due to higher tack rate....gear oil flows slower and shows higher viscosity when using a Zahn cup.....which is the wrong tool to use. Ray

Fri Jan 30, 2015 2:11 pm

aeromech wrote: There is a guy in Oakland that parts out a lot of buses. .

this is the guy I spoke of the other day and I think the one Aeromech is referring to http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=19586

for work http://www.buslab.com/repairs.html

Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:09 pm

JQ wrote:
Here is that pic I promised of what the old oil looked like when it came out. Really nasty and very thin like motor oil consistency.

After it settled for a few hours I noticed all the metal that sank to the bottom. Nothing was on the magnet drain plug so its a nonferrous metal. Does that give any indication of a more precise diagnostic?

And I hear what youre saying PITApan and after thinking about it I agree with what youre implying. I am able to do 90% of the work on my bus and have but transmissions and differentials are out of my ballpark. So with all that said and done, does anyone have any recommendations for a rebuilt tranny in CA?

Non-ferrous flakes are always bad. Typically either brass/bronze off various components and bearings, hard chrome off a bearing breaking up or aluminum from a bearing bore---very bad as it is case damage. I precipitate the flakes on a coffee filter and look at them under a 70x microscope. You can get a quite decent 30x scope for <$10 but the power doesn't always do it.

But this does not mean the tranny is trashed. What seems most salient in what you have described is that the tranny continues to whine with fresh oil. This should not happen.

Your oil does not seem to have water contamination (bad seals).

Save that jar of oil and have a tranny guy look at it. You can also send it in and pay a fee for an analysis.

I would open the thing up and have a look see, what the hell. Burned and spun bearings are pretty obvious. Incorrect gear mesh that happened recently is not so obvious and requires measurements. Long term there is a distinctive wear pattern on the gears that is obvious. At any rate it costs nothing and you have to pull the tranny anyway.

If you buy a rebuild usually you return yours as a core. Keep this in mind when calculating shipping. But if the one you have is not usable as a core it would be good to know. You would have to eat the core fee. You should discuss any damage you find with whomever you are doing business with.

You might contact Longs (http://www.longenterprises.com/) they have a 707 area code so I gather they are up your way.

I don't mean to be too discouraging. You could rebuild it. I notice Longs has a DVD on the subject. But if you are a travelin' man you want to go far with minimal worries. Something like a tranny or clutch screwing up can be a major hassle. Personally I leave home knowing I'm running the best. In addition by the time you buy the tools, the parts and any machine shop time (like for pressing) you may not be saving a lot. Good hobbyist project for someone who stays within tow-home range---but maybe not so for a traveler.

Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:19 pm

the oil is probably not what is behind the whine. Discussion of which oil, etching and things probably isn't going to help him here but that discussion and all those who share in it have a right to be concerned or not concerned. It is not just the brass syncro rings that one must worry about - the case has a high percentage of magnesium in it, it turns brown when exposed. That is another reason to make sure the right oil is chosen.

Regardless back to the whine.

The trick in finding a whine if you have never heard it before is isolating it.

1) is the whine worse when the engine and trans are hot?
2) Going down the road listening to it, If you push the clutch in and let the engine drop in RPM does it change?
3) Does it change going down the road put into neutral?
4) Does rocking the engine easily from leading throttle to trailing throttle change it?
5) Holding the bus under a steady load does rocking the steering a little change it
6)Going down the road lets say you can hear it in neutral. Does reving the engine a little more change the pitch?
7) Can you feel it in the gear shifter? What about your seat? What about your feet on the floor? If you roll the window down can you hear it outside?

Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:58 pm

VWDruid- Yea I have heard about that buslab place but have never been.

PITApan- "Your oil does not seem to have water contamination (bad seals). " Does or DOESN'T have bad seals leading to water leaking in? I'm still just a little confused about that part.

SGKent wrote: the oil is probably not what is behind the whine. Discussion of which oil, etching and things probably isn't going to help him here but that discussion and all those who share in it have a right to be concerned or not concerned. It is not just the brass syncro rings that one must worry about - the case has a high percentage of magnesium in it, it turns brown when exposed. That is another reason to make sure the right oil is chosen.

Regardless back to the whine.

The trick in finding a whine if you have never heard it before is isolating it.

1) is the whine worse when the engine and trans are hot?
2) Going down the road listening to it, If you push the clutch in and let the engine drop in RPM does it change?
3) Does it change going down the road put into neutral?
4) Does rocking the engine easily from leading throttle to trailing throttle change it?
5) Holding the bus under a steady load does rocking the steering a little change it
6)Going down the road lets say you can hear it in neutral. Does reving the engine a little more change the pitch?
7) Can you feel it in the gear shifter? What about your seat? What about your feet on the floor? If you roll the window down can you hear it outside?

1. No difference hot or cold.
2. Yes it changes. But changes into a different sound. Less noisy but sounds almost as if it's the throw out bearing because....
3. ...when I release the clutch and put it in neutral that sound goes away BUT then now there is only a faint whine that goes with the rpms.
4. Do you mean from accelerating to coasting? If so then yes. Accelerating there has always been a very slight whine in the gears ever sinceI've had her but now when I'm off the throttle and just coasting in gear there is a very loud Whurring or Grring sound that I clearly hear coming from the back and correlates with rpms.
5. Nope. Tried it. Also thought it could be a wheel bearing or cv but I doubt it.
6. Yes it does. Higher whining pitch as rpms increase. But the thing is for that sound only in neutral is that it comes and goes unlike the other noises that have just stuck around.
7. The gears shift all the way around very smoothly at a standstill but while driving when I shift I can feel a ( not sure if this is the right way to describe it but a) slight revolving resistance. It feels almost as if it's about to grind but never does and that TO noise gets worse and louder as I approach the next gear. I don't feel anything else out of the ordinary and the transmission is still smooth in all gears as it always has been with no change when the noises appeared.

Well now that you've had me type all that out and really think about it I might have an idea as to whats happening here. As you've mentioned, and PITApan has, the whines still persist even with fresh synthetic oil which we can probably be safe to say that it's unlikely a mainshaft bearing since it would've at least quieted it down correct? The noise first appeared after driving for about 5ish hours non stop from LA up 5 with the exception on gas stops. We were driving in the middle of the night so it was chilly out and the motor wasn't running hot or nothing at a steady 60mph. My current theory is that the problem lies within either the throw out bearing or the pilot bearing or even both since theyre not lubricated by the tran oil and those long highway runs couldve run em dry of grease. I'm looking at my record logs here and the TO bearing along with the release arm, spring, and related bushings were replaced not even 6,000 miles ago. On the other hand the Pilot bearing was replaced around 21,000 miles ago when it first took a dump on me and left me stranded on the Bay Bridge years ago. hmmmm what are your thoughts on this now with all this information. Oh one last question, could either the TO or pilot bearing make such a loud whrring sound while coasting off throttle in gear?

Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:19 pm

JQ wrote: VWDruid- Yea I have heard about that buslab place but have never been.

PITApan- "Your oil does not seem to have water contamination (bad seals). " Does or DOESN'T have bad seals leading to water leaking in? I'm still just a little confused about that part.

Water leaking in past bad seals will make the oil look milky. If you want to see this go out and buy your wife a new blender and have it gift wrapped. Put a cup or more of motor oil in your existing blender with 1/4 cup of water and run it in high for 10 minutes. Just like well shaken oil and vinegar salad dressing, except for the edible part.

Any way you play you need to drop the tranny. The noise ain't going away and the thing isn't fixing itself---all the while strongly indicating something needs fixing. So quit theorizing and do that. If you find something trashed in the throw out or pilot bearing, replace that. Rotate the tranny input and outputs on the bench and see how they feel. I have an old clutch disk with a big knob on it for this (for a different kind of tranny). Then see what you think.