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Sat Feb 21, 2015 9:11 pm

Slightly long and convoluted thread, but please bear with me. First a little history:
When I bought my bus a number of years ago the trans was whiny in 3rd and 4th, so I pulled another trans out of my parts stash and sent it to a local Vw trans rebuilder to be overhauled. When I got it back I rebuilt a set of RGBs and installed them on the trans. Note that none of the parts out of tbe previous whiny trans or RGBs were used in the new setup.
I installed the trans in my bus only to find that not only did the new trans whine in 3rd and 4th, but it was WORSE than the old one. I contacted the builder, and he admitted that he'd reused the mainshaft bearing, as it, and indeed the rest of the trans , appeared to be in excellent condition.
At that point I ran out of time/energy to pursue the matter further, and have driven it like this for the past several years. Not a huge mileage though, as I don't get the opportunity to use my bus much.
After much research on this site I came to the conclusion that the mainshaft bearing HAD to be bad. I made up a 7 leg puller, and spent the last few days pulling the engine and trans, pulling the bearing, replacing it with a new FAG bearing, then putting everything back together.
I finally drove it this afternoon and was disappointed to find that the noise was still there, maybe not quite as bad, but still there, nonetheless.
No noise in 1st or 2nd. Shift to 3rd and get a moderate whine. Shift to 4th and get a fairly loud whine that is most pronounced at about 45mph. Gear oil is clean, with no metal particles. I originally filled it with dino 80w90, then tried Redline MT90. No noticeable difference in noise.
If not the mainshaft bearing, then what? I thought maybe the ring and pinion may have been set up improperly, but that would make noise in all gears, wouldn't it?
Any ideas?? I'm kind of at my wit's end here.
TIA

Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:38 am

Back in 1976, I had a 1961 camper that had a loud whining sound in fourth gear when I drove it. A mechanic told me that the noise was from the pinion gear. I know that the lash between the ring and pinion gears has to be set just right.

Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:22 am

Generally, for what is inside the center section of the tranny, I take it or send it to a tranny builder.

Talk to your tranny builder. Maybe he will fix it for you, since he did not fix it right the first time. Then again, it was some years and miles ago, so maybe not.

Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:04 pm

With limited information I'm going to say part 15 http://www.longenterprises.com/diagram_folder/dia1beetletrans.htm as a scored race will make that exact noise. A worn ring gear will do it too but the difference is the speed will change whine from 3rd to 4th with the pinion bearing.

Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:16 pm

BarryL wrote: A worn ring gear will do it too but the difference is the speed will change whine from 3rd to 4th with the pinion bearing.

I think you might be on to something. Could you elaborate on this please?

Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:54 am

Since I went and opened my big keyboard's mouth let me say that a brand new bus right off the show room floor will have a whine that emanates from the straight-cut RGB gear teeth. It is a slight and pretty sound.

So when you say whine it could be any number of things. The pinion bearing whine sounds a lot like water running out of a faucet as a hiss with the whine of the pipes and hiss together. It is a softer whine in 3rd than in 4th but the speed follows the speed of the bus. In third there is more engine noise and the whine is shadowed by the noise. Then in 4th it appears louder and faster as the bus goes faster.

Does your whine go away if you are on the flat and let the gas pedal loaf the drive train with little to no push of horsepower added?

The ring gear whine is more of a wavering whine that follows around corners and fluctuates with pavement seams and dips in the surface of the highway.

Does your 3rd and 4th whine change speed commensurate with the engine rpm or with wheel rotation?

Could you have bad fan shaft bearings? Could it be your cam gears? Those will change with engine rpm.

Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:36 pm

BarryL wrote: Since I went and opened my big keyboard's mouth let me say that a brand new bus right off the show room floor will have a whine that emanates from the straight-cut RGB gear teeth. It is a slight and pretty sound.

So when you say whine it could be any number of things. The pinion bearing whine sounds a lot like water running out of a faucet as a hiss with the whine of the pipes and hiss together. It is a softer whine in 3rd than in 4th but the speed follows the speed of the bus. In third there is more engine noise and the whine is shadowed by the noise. Then in 4th it appears louder and faster as the bus goes faster.

Does your whine go away if you are on the flat and let the gas pedal loaf the drive train with little to no push of horsepower added?

The ring gear whine is more of a wavering whine that follows around corners and fluctuates with pavement seams and dips in the surface of the highway.

Does your 3rd and 4th whine change speed commensurate with the engine rpm or with wheel rotation?

Could you have bad fan shaft bearings? Could it be your cam gears? Those will change with engine rpm.

First of all, it's definitely coming from the trans, not the engine. I've had more than one engine bolted up to this trans with the same noise. My RGBs do make a bit of noise but it's a very subtle sound, and not audible much of the time. This is definitely a sharp sounding whine, and feels like it's being conducted up front by the shift rods. The noise goes away when I lift my foot off the gas on a flat road. The noise is definitely sharper and louder in 4th than in 3rd. I definitely notice it waver a bit as I drive through dips and cracks in the road surface.
It's sounding like from what you say that it could be the ring gear. I may try to get a video of the noise and post it.

Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:29 am

Wayland wrote:
It's sounding like from what you say that it could be the ring gear. I may try to get a video of the noise and post it.

or possibly even some audio?! ;)

Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:20 am

Sounds exactly like a droopy or broken front mount. Your shift rod hits on the bus and transmits the sound. All the symptoms (especially the one about a whole 'nuther tranny makes the same noises) correspond with broken/droopy/shift rod noise.

Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:16 am

The trans mounts were new at the time I installed the trans, and are still in good cond. IIRC they are Vw of Mexico mounts. I have always wondered if they are harder than the original German mounts though.

Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:46 am

You can check the front trans mount with a short drive. Take off, shift to second and wind it out a but. Step off the gas pedal. If the shifter moves forward or back ( dont remember which way), the nose cone mount is moving up and down. You can also look at the relationship between the shift rod and the tube, just forward of the nose cone. It should be mostly centered

Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:08 pm

My 65 Westy has the 3rd and 4th gear whine/howl as described by the original poster with his bus. My tranny is of unknown mileage and history. The way it was gunked up and caked with old oil and dirt, etc, I'd say it is likely the one that came in the bus.

The bus sat for 17 years before I got it. The tranny was flushed and refilled with fresh gear oil during the process of getting the bus going again. The old fluid that was drained from the tranny looked red and was thin like auto tranny fluid.

The tranny whines pretty much all the time when accelerating or under heavy load. Third and fourth are loudest, with 45 mph up a slight hill in 4th being the loudest condition. It is quiet when decelerating or in level unaccelerated conditions, just cruising and not under much load. Touching the shifter with just my pinky cuts the noise by about half usually. After replacing the rubber cushioned shift coupler in front of the tranny is when the noise became more pronounced.

The noise is louder once the vehicle has been driven at speed a while and on hotter times of the day. Quieter at night or in the cool of the morning.

The tranny doesn't misbehave in any other way, stays in gear , shifts nice (with a little bee-eeeermp sound between gears). Doing the 2nd gear, let off the gas test as described above, the shifter doesn't move much or clunk.

My question is, how far can I expect to push this tranny before a rebuild? It's obviously tired is some way, but operates fine except for the whining.

I'm working for two weeks in Laredo TX in May and would like to take the bus there, an 800 mile trip one way. The bus runs nice in every other way, motor is silky smooth. Is a whiny tranny going to explode on the side of the road ? How far have other posters pushed a noisy tranny that isn't misbehaving aside from being noisy?

Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:32 pm

Were there any metal particles in the oil when you drained it?
After posting this (2 years ago) I drove my bus around locally for awhile, then down to Eugene, OR and back (about 1000-1200). The noise never got worse, but eventually it developed a shifting problem (not related to the noise) and I pulled tbe trans out and replaced it with a used one that so far, to my amazement, seems to be in perfect condition.

Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:20 pm

No metal in the oil. It was low, and thin and red like auto tranny fluid, but clean. Some people that looked at it were of the opinion it was not auto fluid but something like Redline or Lucas gear oil. Possibly a previous owner had added some kind of snake oil treatment to quiet the whining.

I had a nice old 88 Dodge Ramcharger that developed a very whiny/noisy rear axle at about 130k miles. Flushed it and used an oil treatment that the Dodge dealership said it needed. It got louder. Since I had nothing to lose, I flushed it again and used some kinda teflon /moly "Slick 50 for axles " treatment that was the snake oil de jour back in the mid 90's. To my amazement, it quieted down and I drove it to 249k miles before selling it off. No issues with the rear end after that.

Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:23 am

The pinion thrust bearing will make that noise when it gets rough.

Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:48 pm

It is louder when going around curves to the right, I think , and quieter taking curves the other way.

It seems to be heat related too. Much louder in the heat of the day. Which tells me thicker gear oil might quiet it down some.

Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:48 am

Following up : I added a pint of Lucas oil stabilizer to my whiny transmission. I was able to notice a difference the first time I made it into 3rd gear. Drove it around in the heat of the day and got it warmed up and found a place to get it up to 55 mph. Dramatic reduction in whining/howling in 4th gear and no more chattering and howling making its way up through the shifter. I knew it would probably have some effect being such thick oil, but was pretty surprised that it pretty much eliminated the noise. Now I can hear the RGB's like on my other bus.

Thu May 11, 2017 4:56 pm

Any updates? You're using the regular Lucas oil stabilizer?

Thu May 11, 2017 5:35 pm

Now that I've driven the bus around 1,000 miles down here to Texas, the noise/whining in 4th gear has reduced by about 80%, and the chattering/rattling in the shifter at 45-50 has been completely eliminated. Adding the Lucas helped immediately, and when the tranny had leaked enough, about 400 miles into the trip, I added the rest of the bottle. The rate of leakage reduced, too.

The tranny still has a pleasant whine in all gears when under load, but it is even now, no gear really louder than another. The tranny sounds basically normal now.

Edit: Yes, the white 1 QT bottle, I think it is the regular. Says oil stabilizer for engines and manual gearboxes.

Thu May 18, 2017 8:34 am

I've got a nearly identical issue. I thought it was a wheel bearing at first, but it definitely follows the load on the engine. I'll try out the oil stabilizer. Any suggestion on how to get some oil out so I can add the stabilizer? Put it on the curb and tip a little out?

Also, is this a likely cause for an 002 as well?