TheSamba.com :: View topic - Air-Cooled Lubrication

Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:24 pm

The Type 3 1500S was the first engine in the VW family to utilize "waste circulation" to help cool the oil. That grooved pressure relief piston was nothing more than a controlled leak out the main gallery into the dump port of the relief bore to allow the pump to circulate a greater quantity of oil through the cooler than the engine was actually using.

Can anybody here give me the definitive oil pump gear size the year before the grooved plunger, and oil pump gear size that came with the grooved plunger?

I am posting a link here:

http://www.itinerant-air-cooled.com/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=12422

Speaking of of oil pressure vs marketingmarketingmarketing, once again, I find that marketing is promoting this idea that original lubrication systems were somehow deficient and therefore need a nice 30mm pump the better which to blow up your cooler . . . but I keep finding that low oil pressure very often comes from not understanding that the maximum bearing clearances allowed ARE the limit at which the lubrication system can no longer maintain pressure. Anyways, I need a critique as to the accuracy.
Colin Type 3 Owner Yes

Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:41 pm

I believe the stock pump size is 21mm, with most upgrades being 23mm (stock size for a dual relief case). Most dual relief cases get a 26mm pump for an upgrade. A 30mm pump needs shroud clearancing to fit, and is not normally used on a t-3 engine.

Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:29 am

I don't believe that the 30mm pump is needed on any normal ACVW. For most folks it is just a band aid and HP robber. Plus as you mentioned, it is a good way to blow a cooler if there is any issue with the relief valves or springs. Unfortunately I can't help you with you original question, but I whole heartedly agree with you on pump size.

Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:31 am

Bobnotch wrote: I believe the stock pump size is 21mm, with most upgrades being 23mm (stock size for a dual relief case). Most dual relief cases get a 26mm pump for an upgrade. A 30mm pump needs shroud clearancing to fit, and is not normally used on a t-3 engine.

All these friggen numbers.

From what I do allegedly know,
Type1/2
1970 introduction of dual relief.......... 24mm gears one year only
1971 introduction of doghouse .......... 26 mm gears on up

So what about the 1500S in 1965? I think the Type 1s were 17 or 19mm.

I hope to find out if the waste circulation grooved plunger came with increased gear size specifically for the Type 3?
The Type 3 engines were on a whole nuther track than the bugs/buses with their 66 hp, and I am trying to see if they had their own lubrication track.
Colin

Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:53 am

Amskeptic wrote: Bobnotch wrote: I believe the stock pump size is 21mm, with most upgrades being 23mm (stock size for a dual relief case). Most dual relief cases get a 26mm pump for an upgrade. A 30mm pump needs shroud clearancing to fit, and is not normally used on a t-3 engine.

All these friggen numbers.

From what I do allegedly know,
Type1/2
1970 introduction of dual relief.......... 24mm gears one year only
1971 introduction of doghouse .......... 26 mm gears on up

So what about the 1500S in 1965? I think the Type 1s were 17 or 19mm.

I hope to find out if the waste circulation grooved plunger came with increased gear size specifically for the Type 3?
The Type 3 engines were on a whole nuther track than the bugs/buses with their 66 hp, and I am trying to see if they had their own lubrication track.
Colin

The parts book lists pump body # 311 115 107A using the grooved plunger (part# 311 115 411B) to the end of 71 (July). No gear sizes are called out though.

Sat Mar 14, 2015 9:07 am

From my early shop manual

Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:05 pm

W1K1 wrote: From my early shop manual

Thank you all for the information.
I do not know how I am going to answer the gear size question.

I am also now wondering how the grooved plunger made it all the way to July 1971 with the Type 3 engines when the 1970 bus and bug apparently did not have grooved plungers as of the instant that the dual relief was introduced in August 1969 for the 1970 model year.

Anyhow, Happy Oil Pressure To All.
Colin

Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:43 pm

Amskeptic wrote:
I do not know how I am going to answer the gear size question.

I am also now wondering how the grooved plunger made it all the way to July 1971 with the Type 3 engines when the 1970 bus and bug apparently did not have grooved plungers as of the instant that the dual relief was introduced in August 1969 for the 1970 model year.

Anyhow, Happy Oil Pressure To All.
Colin

That's because VW continued to use the pump and gears in the later cases, but dropped the grooved plunger since they went to a dual relief case.