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  View original topic: Turn signal Headlight issue
Zebilmnc Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:53 am

So on the way to work this morning I encountered some electrical gremlins. My wiring harness, 9 pin relay, headlight relay, and turn signal arm/switch are all new. Installed 6 months ago and have all worked perfectly since. This morning when I used the left turn signal my bright lights turned on. When I used my right signal the brights turned off. If they were bright the dimmer would not dim them, only the right signal would. I'm thinking the new pos 9 pin relay is going bad. Could it be something else?

EDragnDean Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:13 am

More likely the turn signal arm/switch (66-67 brights are in the signal arm/switch) as the brights are a different relay.

Take the housing off and double check that everything is mounted right.

olliehank47 Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:05 am

EDragnDean wrote: More likely the turn signal arm/switch (66-67 brights are in the signal arm/switch) as the brights are a different relay.

Take the housing off and double check that everything is mounted right.

Indeed, THIS^^

The 9-pin box has nothing to do with headlights, but the turn signals and headlight dimmer are both routed through the turn signal switch. Disassemble the switch and use a good electrical spray cleaner to clean out the connections in the switch mechanism.

While you're in there, look for a broken soldered connection. The headlight relay is activated by the turn signal arm when you lift it up, as you know. This is a grounding of the wire connected to the headlight relay. The wire or solder connection may be broken and is being grounded accidentally by the movement of the arm.

Zebilmnc Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:12 am

Thanks. I will check out the turn signal arm and wiring this weekend.

hitest Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:56 pm

Upon discovering my '66 signal arm was extra-crispy (clicked hard when turning), I just bit the bullet and ordered a new one from WW. Sure enough, when I removed it to repaint the column, I was left with a mess of resoldered earlier repairs and goop to keep it all together- and it came out in pieces.

Zebilmnc Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:11 am

Ok. The headlight and turn signals went back to normal after that one day. Then yesterday the turn signals both stopped working. The signals themselves work when I use the emergency flashers. The dimmer on the switch arm works. Everything electrical works except the turn signals.

I opened the switch. It is a new WW switch only 9 months or so. Everthing is connected and clean. I don't see any problems. What could cause this. I don't really want to shell out another hundred bucks for another crappy switch unless I have to.

olliehank47 Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:57 pm

Zebilmnc wrote: Ok. The headlight and turn signals went back to normal after that one day. Then yesterday the turn signals both stopped working. The signals themselves work when I use the emergency flashers. The dimmer on the switch arm works. Everything electrical works except the turn signals.

I opened the switch. It is a new WW switch only 9 months or so. Everthing is connected and clean. I don't see any problems. What could cause this. I don't really want to shell out another hundred bucks for another crappy switch unless I have to.

You may want to test the 9-pin box. Use the following site and follow the troubleshooting guide.

http://www.type2.com/library/electris/vw-9prong.html

Zebilmnc Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:18 am

Thanks for the link. After reading it I believe It is in the switch not the relay. Is there any way to troubleshoot the switch or just replace it?

olliehank47 Tue Jun 02, 2015 1:17 pm

Zebilmnc wrote: Thanks for the link. After reading it I believe It is in the switch not the relay. Is there any way to troubleshoot the switch or just replace it?

Can you let us know just what the fault is? I mean, when you move the turn signal arm, do the front/rear lights come on but not blink or do they not light at all? Does only one light (front or rear) come on but the other doesn't?

Answers to the above may help narrow things down a bit.

Zebilmnc Tue Jun 02, 2015 4:44 pm

When turning the arm left or right nothing happens. No light at all. The lights work properly with the emergency flasher. The turn signals were working and stopped during a ride the other day. All electrical is new.

EDragnDean Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:56 pm

Zebilmnc wrote: When turning the arm left or right nothing happens. No light at all. The lights work properly with the emergency flasher. The turn signals were working and stopped during a ride the other day. All electrical is new.

Your emergency lights receive power from via the 30 connection (allowing emergency flashers to work when ignition is off). Signals receive via 15. I would check your black wire from the fuse box to your 15 input on your 9pin signal box. My guess is you are not getting power there, disconnected? fuse? Check and report back.

9 pin box is "J" in this wiring diagram.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/bus_66_USA.jpg

EDragnDean Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:19 pm

Zebilmnc wrote: Thanks for the link. After reading it I believe It is in the switch not the relay. Is there any way to troubleshoot the switch or just replace it?

In the link olliehank47 provided;

"Finally, to finish checking out the turn signal switch, pull off the wire connected to terminal 49a and touch it to terminal 30. Flip the turn signal switch to "left turn" and both the front and rear left turn signal lamps should come on steadily. Flip the switch over to "right turn" and both the front and rear right turn signal lamps should come on steadily. If not, there is a problem in the turn signal switch, wiring, bulbs, or sockets. Put the wire back on 49a when you're done."

49a from the 9pin box directly to 30, 30 is a "hot" connection.

Zebilmnc Wed Jun 03, 2015 9:52 am

Thanks. I will try your suggestions this weekend and post my results.

Zebilmnc Sat Jun 20, 2015 6:58 am

Ok. I have about had it with this wiring. I ended up replacing the signal arm and 9 pin relay. I have hooked up all the wires the way they were and the way I see them on the diagrams but this ain't working. Yes I tried the troubleshooting steps above. I don't know what to do now but here is what is happening now

Key off

Eflasher works no dash light
Headlights work with dim
No brakes

Key on

Rear flashers come on with dash light without turning them on



Pressing the Brakes works and stops the flashers and dash light
While Holding brake the right turn signal works

Please help this is killing me


And 30 to vr front right turn signal
30 to 54f Both rear light
30 to vl front left turn

olliehank47 Sat Jun 20, 2015 7:32 am

Zebilmnc wrote: Ok. I have about had it with this wiring. I ended up replacing the signal arm and 9 pin relay. I have hooked up all the wires the way they were and the way I see them on the diagrams but this ain't working. Yes I tried the troubleshooting steps above. I don't know what to do now but here is what is happening now

Key off

Eflasher works no dash light
Headlights work with dim
No brakes

Key on

Rear flashers come on with dash light without turning them on



Pressing the Brakes works and stops the flashers and dash light
While Holding brake the right turn signal works

Please help this is killing me


And 30 to vr front right turn signal
30 to 54f left rear light
30 to vl front left turn

The functions with the key off are correct. The dash light will not work with the emergency flasher/key off because the signal from the 9-pin box to the dash light is a ground and the bulb gets its power from the ignition. The bulb in the emergency switch, however, should flash. I assume you mean he turn signal switch makes the headlights dim, and the brake lights do not work, correct? If so, that is correct.

With key on, you obviously have a problem. So, as soon as the key is turned on the flashers begin to work, is that correct? If so, and you are absolutely sure the wiring to the 9-pin box is correct, you may need to look elsewhere. First, take a look at the wire from K terminal to the bulb, at the bulb (behind the speedo.) Is the wire connected to the center bulb terminal?

Next, check your emergency flasher switch. Is there a blue wire connected to terminal K on the switch, and is the switch properly grounded to the dash?

What do you mean by this?

"And 30 to vr front right turn signal
30 to 54f left rear light
30 to vl front left turn"

EDragnDean Sat Jun 20, 2015 7:44 am

Are your front signals working?

Double check your wiring. Triple check the black/purple and the black/red, use a flashlight to verify the colors.

olliehank47 Sat Jun 20, 2015 8:00 am

olliehank47 wrote: Zebilmnc wrote: Ok. I have about had it with this wiring. I ended up replacing the signal arm and 9 pin relay. I have hooked up all the wires the way they were and the way I see them on the diagrams but this ain't working. Yes I tried the troubleshooting steps above. I don't know what to do now but here is what is happening now

Key off

Eflasher works no dash light
Headlights work with dim
No brakes

Key on

Rear flashers come on with dash light without turning them on



Pressing the Brakes works and stops the flashers and dash light
While Holding brake the right turn signal works

Please help this is killing me


And 30 to vr front right turn signal
30 to 54f left rear light
30 to vl front left turn

The functions with the key off are correct. The dash light will not work with the emergency flasher/key off because the signal from the 9-pin box to the dash light is a ground and the bulb gets its power from the ignition. The bulb in the emergency switch, however, should flash. I assume you mean he turn signal switch makes the headlights dim, and the brake lights do not work, correct? If so, that is correct.

With key on, you obviously have a problem. So, as soon as the key is turned on the flashers begin to work, is that correct? If so, and you are absolutely sure the wiring to the 9-pin box is correct, you may need to look elsewhere. First, take a look at the wire from K terminal to the bulb, at the bulb (behind the speedo.) Is the wire connected to the center bulb terminal?

Next, check your emergency flasher switch. Is there a blue wire connected to terminal K on the switch, and is the switch properly grounded to the dash?

What do you mean by this?

"And 30 to vr front right turn signal
30 to 54f left rear light
30 to vl front left turn"

Is it the results of troubleshooting the box? If so, it's not very clear. Did you do the following test, and, if so, can you post the results, in the order they are described in the test?

"To test the rear lights (and a partial checkout of the turn signal switch), do this. Pull off the wire connected to terminal 54f and touch it to terminal 30. Make sure both of your rear lights come on. Now, with the key off, flip the turn signal switch into "left turn". Your left rear light should go out but the right one should stay on. Now flip the switch to "right turn" and your left rear light should be on and the right one should be off. If this is not as expected, the trouble is in the turn signal switch, wiring, bulbs, or sockets. Put the wire back on 54f when you're done.

Finally, to finish checking out the turn signal switch, pull off the wire connected to terminal 49a and touch it to terminal 30. Flip the turn signal switch to "left turn" and both the front and rear left turn signal lamps should come on steadily. Flip the switch over to "right turn" and both the front and rear right turn signal lamps should come on steadily. If not, there is a problem in the turn signal switch, wiring, bulbs, or sockets. Put the wire back on 49a when you're done."

Zebilmnc Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:05 am

Ok. Hot to brakes they work. Turn signal right and roght goes out . Turn left they both go out. Hot to 49a and turn right the right side come on. Turn left and nothing. When I turn on the key the hazards are on without the switch. I press the brake and they stop. Hold the brake and use right signal it works. Use left signal and nothing. The wiring at the switch and behind the dash are still hooked up correctly. I think I have the 9 pin correct.

Zebilmnc Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:17 am

Blue green from flasher switch to KBL
Red to 30
Black with white green from fuse block to 15
Black with red to 54
Brown to S
Black purple to 54f
Black from turn signal switch to 49A
Signals are VL and VR
Black red and black yellow to brakes
Brown from turn signal to headlight relay
Brown to ground on wiper switch
Blue to flaher switch K

Zebilmnc Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:28 am

I put the original 1966 turn signal switch in and everything is working fine. WW was out of stock so I ordered the switch from ISP and will never order from them again. This thing is a chinese piece of shit that has cost me a couple of weekends for nothing.



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