TheSamba.com :: View topic - S.A. High Beam vs. the Rectangular High Beam?(smaller light)

Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:12 pm

Just wondering which one puts out a better light pattern and better distance if they had same bulbs in them before I make the decision on the S.A. grill.

Edit: I'm just referring to the smaller light closer to the center of the grill. Not the large rectangular and 7" round.

Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:15 pm

Having had both and then having been in a car with led headlights, I'd get a round headlight grille with 7" led headlights. Those put out the best light ever. Better than hid and easier to retrofit...unless you have square lights.

Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:26 pm

My somewhat subjective opinion of the rectangulars:

Even with the high wattage 80/100 bulbs and relays, my stock rectangular headlites were just OK. (pretty worthless with stock set up)

I upgraded the outer rectangular lights to E-codes with good 55/60W bulbs and my high beams are AMAZING. I have separate 8" Cibie driving lamps and they don't really improve distance, only breadth of pattern.

So, what does it all mean? For the rectangular headlites, the outer lights in "high beam" operation are much more important .

The SA may be more effective, but based on the small difference I experience with my Cibies, I really think you should focus on the outer Hi/low lights and bulbs.

Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:32 am

The inner high beam housing that comes with the SA Grill is pretty good. I would say overall it is better than the small square inner lights on 86-91 vans. This will prove to be especially true if the stock squares have any fogging or pitting from years of use.

The outer H4 housing and bulb combination is unquestionably the key to good lighting. Most people spend 80-90% of their time behind the wheel on low beam, so that should always be the focus when upgrading.

For a really nice setup, I would go with the following:

South African Grill kit from the vendor of your choice.

A set of these Cibie 7" H4 housings http://www.amazon.com/Cibie-082440-Light-Unit/dp/B008DQV88Q

Osram Hyper H4 85/80W bulbs http://www.rallylights.com/h-412xo-h4-9003-hb2-12v-osram-hyper-each.html for the outer bulbs.

Narva RangePower +50 H3 bulbs http://store.candlepower.com/naraulhiou551.html

Install this equipment with a good set of headlight relays, then properly aim the lights and I'm sure you will be totally happy with your lighting system.

I have noticed over the years that the quality control of most high wattage bulbs like the Hella 80/100W (H4 and 9004) has gotten pretty bad.

It's not unusual to be able to see differences in the filament position and alignment between two bulbs with the naked eye. Since the filament position is a key indicator of how a bulb works in a reflector headlight system, it's worth the extra cost to buy bulbs from manufacturer's who still care about quality control.

For good lighting on a more restrained budget, grab the grill and headlight buckets from an early (80-85) van and install the Cibie lights, Osram bulbs and a set of relays and you will have good performance for around $300.00.

Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:27 am

Yep, I've got the Cibie 7" and buckets. Might just mount them to compare them against the Hell H4's on my '84.

I need to see a S.A. setup in real life vs. pictures!

Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:04 pm

Just my opinion:

IF the difference is really that significant to you AND you spend a lot of time in truly DARK places, you should think of a pair of aftermarket lights.

Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:16 pm

Corwyn wrote: Just my opinion:

IF the difference is really that significant to you AND you spend a lot of time in truly DARK places, you should think of a pair of aftermarket lights.

the S.A. light setup isn't aftermarket?

Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:49 pm

Steve M. wrote: Yep, I've got the Cibie 7" and buckets. Might just mount them to compare them against the Hell H4's on my '84.

I need to see a S.A. setup in real life vs. pictures!

I picked up an SA grille a few years back and converted some Jaguar 5 3/4" inner buckets to run a standard size light in lieu of the stock SA bulb in the center. I've got Cibie 7 inch globes with Hella 100/130W bulbs on relays with Cibie inner yellow high beam 5 3/4" globes with 100/130W bulbs on relays. They are wicked bright and work great. But they don't compare to LED light bulbs.

My boss has these headlights that he picked up from Dasmule in his Syncro:

http://www.dasmule.com/peterson-led-head-lights-7-round/

They are pretty bad ass and have the Cibies beat by a long shot.

There's a guy on the forum that did some comparisons with another brand of LED headlight and they look great too. One could get the SA set up and pick up a set of outer buckets either new or used and then pick the LED lights. 7" Cibies new will run about $200 from what I recall and they are way better than the globes supplied with most SA grilles if you go that route. Or spend a little more and pick up some rad LED lights.

Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:17 pm

specialev wrote:

I picked up an SA grille a few years back and converted some Jaguar 5 3/4" inner buckets to run a standard size light in lieu of the stock SA bulb in the center. I've got Cibie 7 inch globes with Hella 100/130W bulbs on relays with Cibie inner yellow high beam 5 3/4" globes with 100/130W bulbs on relays. They are wicked bright and work great. But they don't compare to LED light bulbs.

My boss has these headlights that he picked up from Dasmule in his Syncro:

http://www.dasmule.com/peterson-led-head-lights-7-round/

They are pretty bad ass and have the Cibies beat by a long shot.

There's a guy on the forum that did some comparisons with another brand of LED headlight and they look great too. One could get the SA set up and pick up a set of outer buckets either new or used and then pick the LED lights. 7" Cibies new will run about $200 from what I recall and they are way better than the globes supplied with most SA grilles if you go that route. Or spend a little more and pick up some rad LED lights.

I'm waiting to see the beam pattern from these high tech LED's.
I really like the eCode H4 the way it has a definite edge along the top and then kicks up so you can see the side of the road.
Another thing is that the lens is glass and it may get fogged or a build up on the inside, but it can be cleaned easily. It is not going to fade and dull like the plastic lenses.
Maybe the chemical composition of the plastic polycarbonite will become better resistant to fading in the future so you do not have to polish them like you do now.
Also,it's just my negative thinking but these high tech LED's are just asking to be stolen whereas my old fashioned glass lights do not look anything special to attract attention of the curb sucking lowlifes out there.
that will change when every vehicle has them, but right now they are screaming money to a thief.
I am hoping to find an LED bulb that would fit into the H4's that would be in the accurate position to function as the 100/130w H4 bulbs. Someday somebody is going to create one! Well...that's the fantasy anyway!

Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:28 pm

Don't bother looking for a "plug and play" LED bulb that will work with the stock reflector headlights. There are plenty on the market and NONE of them work.

Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:46 pm

specialev wrote: 7" Cibies new will run about $200 from what I recall and they are way better than the globes supplied with most SA grilles if you go that route.
Less than $90 for a pair actually. I have a few sets of these and they are H4 Cibie lights not some chinese knockoff. http://www.amazon.com/Cibie-082440-Light-Unit/dp/B...s=cibie+h4

Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:59 pm

thatvwbusguy wrote: Don't bother looking for a "plug and play" LED bulb that will work with the stock reflector headlights. There are plenty on the market and NONE of them work.

That's what I'm thinking of the ones I've seen! Wallets still in my pocket!

Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:00 pm

syncrodoka wrote:
Less than $90 for a pair actually. I have a few sets of these and they are H4 Cibie lights not some chinese knockoff. http://www.amazon.com/Cibie-082440-Light-Unit/dp/B...s=cibie+h4

Those are the ones I have too.

Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:12 pm

That's a great price for some Cibies! No city lights though.

Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:17 pm

I have a set of cibies with city lights and they aren't worth the extra expense.

Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:18 am

specialev wrote: That's a great price for some Cibies! No city lights though.

You can add the city lights with CIP1's cool kit. I just did it myself and with a couple of good LED bulbs in the holders the van looks fantastic!!

https://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C11-37001

Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:38 am

Let us know how the city light LED's hold up in such close proximity to the H4 bulb. Do you have to notch the base of the H4 bulb for the city light positive wire to pass through?

A couple pics would be great too!

Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:07 am

Not sure if I would want to put anything in close proximity of a high output h4 bulb,
Let alone put something to block the light from the bulb to the reflector surface.
Do you have any pictures of how they look?
Before and after pictures of the light pattern to see if there are any fall-off of light in any area of the "before" pattern?

Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:47 pm

The H4 bulb has a shield at the bottom of the bulb to prevent light from hitting the bottom of the reflector and being focused into peoples' eyes.

I'm hoping that this will protect the LED but if not, I bought ten of them on Ebay for $8.99, shipping included! ;)

I haven't yet driven the van at night but the cutoff line I can see on the wall of the tunnel going through to Vancouver looked pretty much like it did last week when I went in to the store...

I was worried that the 20 thou or so of the sheet metal mount might push the bulb back too far and make the pattern suck but maybe not.

I'll update as/when necessary and take pix when I can. I've got things to do. Band practise tonight, working downtown again tomorrow, Canucks season on the line tomorrow night!!

Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:55 am

Steve M. wrote: Just wondering which one puts out a better light pattern and better distance if they had same bulbs in them before I make the decision on the S.A. grill

the bulbs can not be the same, stock is H3, SA grille is H4… the SA lens is E code, not US Dot. I ran relayed stock square lenses with upgraded lamps, and was totally underwhelmed. My Hella H4's are FAR superior.

The SA inner is an incredibly bright and long throw narrow spot. I think it is overkill. I have an 87 Van with the SA grill and an 85 Van with Hella H4 7" rounds only. imho, the 7" round alone is more than enough high beam, even without the SA inner lamp. But yes, the SA inner lamp is MUCH brighter than the stock inner, even with relays and bulb upgrades.