TheSamba.com :: View topic

Fri Apr 24, 2015 4:35 pm

Hi everyone,
This is my first post. I had problems signing in but I emailed Everett and he guided me through okay.

I am an entrepreneur originally Welsh, Australian/American resident since 50's. I am a semi retired former British radio dj in Australia and US, I still broadcast news items in those countries and Canada-NZ sometimes. I am also a foreign correspondent and entrepreneur, my bio is
at paul martin entrepreneur google those 4 words on browser gets to me if anyone is interested.

I have collected classics since the 60's when I lived in LA and owned many VW's among them including 23 and 21　Sambas which at the time of course were going for a song compared to today's unbelievable $ !

I presently live in Japan and have decided to embark on a seemingly impossible venture just for the hell of it and the challenge, I spoke to Gershon about this 2 days ago and he, at length pointed out the
extreme difficulties in building not a restoration but new Sambas from scratch. He correctly advised of the tremedous cost of jigs, multi welds and many other points also. But being a stubborn sort I still want to at least give it a crack. I also contacted VW in Hanover at HQ and presently am preparing to build the first Samba as a new vehicle from the ground up. I know it's a BIG risk and I am NOT in it just for the $ but IF I succeed in producing a NEW Samba with the correct specs I would appreciate your inputs about selling it and what kind of response you think I would receive from Samba lovers.

I am willing to invest the $ and time and if the interest is there I will make more !

Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:17 pm

I feel like if I give you money, you may welch on the deal..

Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:54 pm

Post your progress here and you will get feedback.

Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:32 pm

My thoughts revolve around the practical.

Let's forget, for a moment, about the eventual selling price the new Samba would command in order to make it profitable, and focus on the reality of a newly produced split window Samba.

First and foremost, you will be producing a brand new automobile which, if you keep it honest with the originals as you wish, will never be allowed on U.S. highways nor be allowed to be imported as a road vehicle. It will not meet current safety and emission standards. I'm sure the same problem will apply to other major markets. Unless you have a supply of real, early chassis/frames with original VINs, I don't see how you can overcome this obstacle.

The demise of the air-cooled engine was a direct consequence of stronger emission control laws. The change in body configuration of the split bus was a direct result of stronger DOT safety requirements. If your plan is to have a modern power plant and safety features, skinned in a split shell, then, you may have a chance to sell them as legal, drivable vehicles. Otherwise, I don't see how you could sell them, legally, in today's regulated safety and emissions market.

Assuming you could get around all of this, the price would be very high and it would not be a factory, German produced, Samba and the price would be in competition with those that are. If the quality is top-notch (factory or better), you will get admirers, but not collectors. Value is in the originality.

Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:03 pm

Thanks for the response about my idea of producing NEW Sambas.
Like I said folks I didn't think it was gonna be a walk in the park.
I will do my best to make the prototype though and I will contact
the relevant transport authorities in difefrent countries of course.
As a journalist OI have direct contact with their media offices and
that helps a lot.
Yes I believe in total honesty, it's NOT about the $ more so the challenge.
America became great because it pursued challenges not avoided them
because of stumbling blocks. From Cocoa Cola to McDonalds, American
innovations and ideas are prevalent Worldwide !
I fully intend to go ahead with this project just for the hell of it !
Any feedback is welcome and I am a good listener.
After a lifetime in the media I also have never been a quitter !

"Ready to lead...Ready to follow...never quit" (US Navy SEALs)

THE WAY THE WORLD IS GOING,
WE JUST NEED TO CONTINUE TO HAVE VERY SMALL, AGILE, WELL-TRAINED,
HIGHLY MOTIVATED, DISCIPLINED GUYS
TO GET A JOB DONE WHEN OTHER PEOPLE CAN'T DO IT. (US Rangers)

I will research my options carefully in order to produce a viable entity that will be registerable. Whatever it takes !
Once I solve that I will place the first one one this sight for everyones review and opinion and most of all it WILL be affordable. I agree about the collectors value and originality, but having seen some of the rustbuckets and total wrecks restored out there I can't see much REAL originality,etc
I will aim at people who love Sambas and splits,etc and have always wanted one and mine will be NEW !

If there is a copyright problem with VW, as a last resort I will produce an even bette style with more features that is every bit as attractive as the original Sambas......how bout that ?

I chose to reveal my plans on the Samba because I know this is where VW lovers hang out and I really appreciate everyone following my progress on this new venture. It will take lots of $ and time absolutely, but if I eventually pull it off.....well then it's worth it.

Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:12 pm

You will find lots of naysayers! But, I say go for it!

Elon Musk is my hero. He wanted to build a spaceship, build a NEW car company and dominate the internet. He's done everything he set out to do because he had the will power to do it.

Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:48 pm

olliehank47 wrote: My thoughts revolve around the practical.

Let's forget, for a moment, about the eventual selling price the new Samba would command in order to make it profitable, and focus on the reality of a newly produced split window Samba.

First and foremost, you will be producing a brand new automobile which, if you keep it honest with the originals as you wish, will never be allowed on U.S. highways nor be allowed to be imported as a road vehicle. It will not meet current safety and emission standards. I'm sure the same problem will apply to other major markets. Unless you have a supply of real, early chassis/frames with original VINs, I don't see how you can overcome this obstacle.

The demise of the air-cooled engine was a direct consequence of stronger emission control laws. The change in body configuration of the split bus was a direct result of stronger DOT safety requirements. If your plan is to have a modern power plant and safety features, skinned in a split shell, then, you may have a chance to sell them as legal, drivable vehicles. Otherwise, I don't see how you could sell them, legally, in today's regulated safety and emissions market.

Assuming you could get around all of this, the price would be very high and it would not be a factory, German produced, Samba and the price would be in competition with those that are. If the quality is top-notch (factory or better), you will get admirers, but not collectors. Value is in the originality.

Hi Paul,
I like when people try something that most people say can't be done or the obstacles out weigh the outcome. However, defeating government legislation and bureaucratic process will be your biggest challenge, so I ditto what olliehank47 said.
Seeing as you've lived in Australia, you might understand that similar rules about vehicle standards exist. They are very strict and non flexible rules. If a vehicle is pre '70's and therefore pre Australian Design Regulations, you can import it and have it road legal in it's original form. However, any later and the road blocks appear.
As an example, I've imported 2 1959 original splitties into Australia and had no problems. But people who have imported Brazillian '70's splitties could not register them because they had to comply with 'modern' vehicle design rules and of course, being split window design and build they have no chance to comply.
Now, if your Japan built 2015 Samba was to be allowed to be imported to Australia it would need to have airbags, crumple zones, pass crash test criteria, emissions standards, collapsible steering column, head restraints, anti theft locks, seat belt and child restraint anchor points, etc, etc - the list is long!
This is why the last production Brazilian Bay window buses that were produced until 2011 (or thereabouts), could not be imported into Australia. However, they were allowed in the UK and Danbury have sold many as camper conversions.
In short, I think realistically that the USA, Canada & Australia are out for your idea. But the UK and maybe many other countries could be a possibility.
Good luck and keep us all updated with your progress. :D 8)

Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:44 am

You guys are talking about safety regulations but what about selling it as a "kit car"? I don't see how you could ever get a new split bus to meet current safety regulations. There are lots of people in the US registering and driving kit cars. I'm not an expert on this subject but this is the first thing that comes to mind as a solution. I'm also not saying it would work but maybe someone more educated on the subject can say why it would or wouldn't work.

Sat Apr 25, 2015 5:19 am

like the idea

BTW, European regulations forbid that. No turnaround.

This leaves you Asia, Africa and South America....

Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:59 am

Ditto dawerks,

"If something is important enough even if the odds are against you, you should still do it." Elon Musk

http://www.teslamotors.com/

dawerks wrote: You will find lots of naysayers! But, I say go for it!

Elon Musk is my hero. He wanted to build a spaceship, build a NEW car company and dominate the internet. He's done everything he set out to do because he had the will power to do it.

Sat Apr 25, 2015 7:57 am

Build it!!

Make it electric and the emissions problem is solved.

Sat Apr 25, 2015 7:59 am

stuco wrote: You guys are talking about safety regulations but what about selling it as a "kit car"? I don't see how you could ever get a new split bus to meet current safety regulations. There are lots of people in the US registering and driving kit cars. I'm not an expert on this subject but this is the first thing that comes to mind as a solution. I'm also not saying it would work but maybe someone more educated on the subject can say why it would or wouldn't work.

Yes, kit car form could be a solution. California probably has the strictest requirements for kit cars and, after reading the registration requirements, it would be quite feasible to build a split bus from a kit and register it. The problem, of course, is that the manufacturer (the OP) would not be building the buses, only supplying the parts and instructions. That will leave assembly and finish (read painting and upholstery, for example) to the buyer. Don't know how many splitty enthusiasts would want to go that far unless the price of the kit makes it tempting. I know the OP is not concerned about profit, but selling price is crucial to the fan base. Personally, I'd like to see this whole idea come to fruition. :P

Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:05 am

what is the people's experience with the reproduction muscle car bodies? they sell those right? people get them titled?

what year would they appear to be? earlier looks cooler, later drives better.

how well are the Brazilian 15 window (and 23 window conversion) buses selling? I think those are very cool. I would totally rock one.

its a neat idea, but I don't see a huge market of people looking to buy cool cars that drive like tractors compared to modern vehicles. a select group of us weirdos exist, but there is no shortage of nice original/restored split buses at any realistic price level compared to what it would cost for a new produced vehicle.

Sat Apr 25, 2015 12:34 pm

All you would have to do is incorporate the section of a bus that included the the VIN like all the Sppedster repro guys do. You could probable build it around a bay window.

Sat Apr 25, 2015 5:09 pm

Lind wrote:

its a neat idea, but I don't see a huge market of people looking to buy cool cars that drive like tractors compared to modern vehicles. a select group of us weirdos exist, but there is no shortage of nice original/restored split buses at any realistic price level compared to what it would cost for a new produced vehicle.

:lol: 8)

So true and quite funny...... I was just thinking that yesterday while driving my '59 pick up down the twisty coast road where I live. They just don't corner or handle at all in twisty, cambered roads. But why do I have the biggest smile on my face..... 8)

Sat Apr 25, 2015 5:32 pm

If you are thinking in line of reproducing the bodies only, like Dyancorn does for Camaros and Mustangs then I think it is an excellent idea. In fact, I had this idea a few years ago (I've come to the conclusion that I will never have the funds to pursue this business idea) and never understood why no one has done this yet. Think about all those rusted buses that are beyond restoration and could be kept alive (atleast in memory) by using a new shell and transferring the VIN off the old bus. Makes perfect sense to me and could be cost effective over time versus all the labor for body work, welding and replacement material that comes with a professional full restoration. Could be a great business idea to keep the world coolest vehicle alive...

Check out dynacorn if not familiar with the concept...

http://www.dynacornclassicbodies.com/gm_models2.html

Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:11 pm

I'd venture to guess that to properly assemble a bus body it requires tremendously more work than a repop Camaro. Unit body; multiple doors to align (and align well- far narrower gaps than any mustang enjoys); more individually stamped pieces, etc. all make it a heck of a project. Not to mention, upon completion, it has to pass many a backyard VW guy's standards for reassembly, whereas the guys dropping 125k on a mustang are building their whole car with their MasterCard and a cell phone. 8)

Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:17 am

Can't believe no one mentioned Gerson yet in this thread...

Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:31 am

samba kombis wrote: Hi everyone,
This is my first post.... I am an entrepreneur .....
I presently live in Japan and have decided to embark on a seemingly impossible venture....I spoke to Gershon about this 2 days ago and he, at length pointed out the extreme difficulties...

I am willing to invest the $ and time and if the interest is there I will make more !

;)

Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:55 am

If one could build all the assembly jigs, the panels would have to be precision made or the employees will be pulling there hair out.

Producing whole bodies would be the easiest way to get around the legalities. It could raise the market values on rust tilted heaps.