| Abelabelabel |
Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:50 am |
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Let me preface with this: I think pride can get in the way of a lot of stuff. And sometimes the amount of time it takes to get to know enough about something, there can be a certain amount of decision paralysis and lost opportunity cost that comes with that. And sometimes, the only way to learn is through experience. And the only way to get experience is to do things slightly before you think you're ready. And when you're new, you do stuff that a pro wouldn't do. . . like fly to the Bay Area with your best friend and buy a rusty van. Sure that's a bit of a rationalization, but it's always worked for me. Haha. :roll: :roll:
So, I'm dumb and got myself obsessed. I can own that! I mean. . . I must be right? I own a Vanagon.
Well, less dumb, but just as obsessed nearly a year after I began research in to the Vanagon.
The vehicle is a perfect fit for me, my lifestyle, my style, and my philosophy (minus carbon footprint stuff). The community (cult) around the vehicle makes me optimistic that I can keep these vehicles running (crawling) for a long time.
I see a lot of people posting about how owning a Vanagon is madness. I'm smart enough to make sure I have (almost) enough time and money to support the transition of being a dumb obsessed Vanagon owner, to an informed obsessed Vanagon owner. Which I don't know if that counts as smart outside of the Samba. I'm just saying that I can support the habit, and the transition from having mechanics do important work for me, to being able to do it myself.
Madness. And, I think I agree. After getting obsessed, and being new, and naive, I took the plunge (last November) in what was a great, but probably overpriced, adventure, and hard-headed learning experience for me. I wont pound the Bentley Guide bible on why A Vanagon. I'm here, you're here, we're here. We already know. New Multi Purpose Vehicles are generic, uniconic, ugly, less purposely built, oh, and really expensive compared to the lovable Vangon.
I purchased A 1991 Vanagon L that was converted in to a "Carat" interior.
The vehicle was very well maintained mechanically, but was/is a bit of a rust bucket. I got what I believed was a pretty fair price, and drove it from the Bay, back down to Sunny So Cal.
Quick aside #1: Although Camper models, especially Westy's are more sought after, and are going up in value more quickly, they are more than what I need/want right now. Plus: good AC is a big deal.
I then found the best shop in our area, spent a good amount of money getting it to run and drive even better. And it does, and has been incredibly reliable (for a vanagon) for the past 8 months. I have (paid a mechanic that knows what they are doing to) build/built a vehicle that drives great, looks great-ish on the inside, is reliable, but has some rust and dents on the outside.
Quick Aside #2: Beginners enthusiasm wanes. Every time I step in the vehicle I smile. Every time I succesfully merge on to the freeway without having to cut off a Honda fit, I smile. Every time I have a passenger in the vehicle and they freak out as I pull "way too close" to something when I park, I smile. This is great. I love this car. Every time I step out of the vehicle, I notice every dent, every ding, every sign of bondo, all the rust around the front windshield, and tiny little clocks tick, and tiny little cash registers cha-ching in my head. None of this stuff is structural (yet) but damnit, I want this rig to look as good as it feels!
So I did some soul searching (lol) and hours, and hours, and hours, and hours, and hours of looking at craigslist ads, samba ads. . . etc.
I quickly realized that the amount of money and time it would take to really deal with the body work, it would probably be a better idea to purchase another van. And to be clear, this was my actual train of thought. It wasn't, ohmygoshIspenttoomuchmoneyonthiswhatamIdoingwhatamIthinking, it was a natural escalation. Let's look for a Van with a body that's in better shape. . . that isn't a syncro, isn't a westy, a syncro 16, a doka, or an imported 4x4 LT FLorida. None of those other things. . . yet.
I already knew the amount of money I spent on proactive maintenance was gone forever. And although it hurt my pride, and my wallet, a little. It was a learning experience: Vanagon owners can't be helped I guess.
So then I bought the pretty-on-the-outside Van. I saved a little money by purchasing a vehicle that was a salvage title, because for some reason, I think it's a good idea to do things like that. And I sold my MKV VW Golf to a friend who was in a rut, and also offered to teach me to drive stick. Now I own 2 vans!
This time, I'll do just enough to get it on the road, and play everything by ear. I know a little bit more now, so I totally know what to look for and can competently tell the difference between a Money Pit and a Gold Mine and the last Van has been running great, what's the worst that could happen?
Quick Aside #3: See, I'm being a rational, financially responsible human, that thinks things through and plans for the future! Of course, that's what I get for thinking that the future will be like the past. After new car check up at same excellent shop as before, and a pretty good thumbs up after taking care of the important can-kill-me overhaul of coolant lines, fuel lines, and I forget what-other lines, I manage to still get a coolant leak bad enough to eventually blow up my motor in 2 months flat. Also, I destroyed the shifter, and the entire shifting mechanism got to get updated/overhauled also.
Okay great! I'm a Vanagon Owner. I own an extremely reliable (for now) and overhauled rust bucket, and an I-can't-believe-I-had-to-get-a-new-motor-already beautiful, questiona. . . quirky, red roadtrip gem. I somehow fit them both in my driveway, and even after spending a small fortune to keep them running as I catch up with my own mechanical knowledge to be able to do this on the cheap in the future, I can't help but look at syncros, westy's, syncro 16s, dokas, And imported 4x4 LT FLoridas.
And, I go on to the Samba, and think, this is all very normal now.
It's normal to read an 8 page thread on optimal tire pressure for Hancook Tires on my stock 14" rims.
It's normal to think that spending $1,000 on an awning that I'll realistically only use 3 times a year, might be a good idea in a few months.
It's normal to think that spending $2,000 for a used hardshell tent to camper-up my Carat is a good idea. They look so awesome. Nevermind the fact that I'll realistically only use that 4 or 5 times over the next 4 or 5 years probably.
I've decided that everything I've written in here is normal for Vanagon owners. Maybe I dove a little deeper than some at the beginning, but hey, I'm learning, whatever. But c'mon. . . The Naked Truth. This is part of becoming and remaining Vanagon Owners. . . C'mon, we've all done it right?
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| 61Scout |
Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:07 pm |
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Well, having watched the whole evolution unfold here on TS, I have to say your great attitude about the journey is inspiring. Many would have given up and thrown in the towel, cut their losses and walked away. But just as boiling water will soften the potato, so too will it harden the egg.
I'm glad you're still around and still interested in vanagons and the hobby. Way to keep your chin up!
-Kevin |
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| michaelasnider |
Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:15 pm |
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| Congratulations Abelabelabel, you're an egg, not a potato! |
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| danfromsyr |
Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:23 pm |
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| I checked your Ads.. No VWs for sale... :P |
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| davideric9 |
Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:46 pm |
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| Move the engine from the rusty one to the red one. You can do this yourself. My wife and I installed an engine without any help, first time ever and it worked, only took us a week, many trips to the parts store, more tools, a few phone calls to experts, but we did it. Great learning experience and she thinks of the van as hers, which is great. |
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| Steve M. |
Mon Jul 20, 2015 1:29 pm |
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| Sounds about right... now if only I could convince my psychiatrist! :D |
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| Abelabelabel |
Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:16 pm |
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| Yeah, I'm definitely hard-boiled alright. |
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| jobenaus |
Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:22 pm |
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| With one you might have got away with a lapse in judgement or mild touch of insanity....but two........ ;) |
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| Abelabelabel |
Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:57 pm |
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davideric9 wrote: Move the engine from the rusty one to the red one. You can do this yourself. My wife and I installed an engine without any help, first time ever and it worked, only took us a week, many trips to the parts store, more tools, a few phone calls to experts, but we did it. Great learning experience and she thinks of the van as hers, which is great.
Motor in Rusty van is good. When the time comes, if Motor does go out, I may turn it in to a very capable parts vehicle. As there's lots to salvage. And use everything I've "learned" at that point to throw some of the stuff in to a worthy project. |
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| porterbrown |
Mon Jul 20, 2015 3:38 pm |
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Great post. I love when folks on a message board actually have some writing chops. :wink:
...And, yes, we're our own breed of crazy.
Cheers! |
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| Paulbeard |
Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:00 pm |
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| Not buying a second but learning a lot about my first and even more about the people who love them… :? I like a lot of the same things you do, the crazy turning circle, the neverending experience of learning how close to something else you can park. The view (except out the back window: it's a Westy) is great, driving position is good and will be better without heat in the summer, maybe even with the AC working. |
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| newfisher |
Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:02 pm |
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| Great post. Ive enjoyed watching your journey in the last 6 months. |
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| hdenter |
Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:48 pm |
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jobenaus wrote: With one you might have got away with a lapse in judgement or mild touch of insanity....but two........ ;)
Crap!! I have five! Where does that put me on the scale of insanity? :shock:
I started out so innocent... I had decided to sell my '69 ghia vert project and to use the proceeds to purchase a van and fix it up for the family to camp in; like I did when I was young. I had $3500 to work with after I sold the ghia 'vert. I was looking for a weekender for a good price and found an '85 that was rusty, but complete. It ran great with a bit of a loud ring&pinion. Got it for $1500 plus a couple hundred in back DMV. I though "Great!, with the rest of the money I can fix it up nice!" Not being as familiar with them as I am now, I did not realize how bad the seam rust was and how much work it would take to make it look presentable. I soon found myself looking for a dead van with a nice shell.
I found an '82 diesel chassis shell that was rust free with one bad dent in the side. It had a current and clean title/registration. I thought "Perfect! my friend Phil will fix the dent and I can swap the interior and drive train from the '85 over to it." No more smog issues. I could do a SVX and not worry about CARB. Best of all, it was basically free! I traded the guy for my basket case doner '74 hard top ghia coup that I still had laying around.
Meanwhile, I was driving the '85 a lot and was getting tired of climbing the local grade at 45mph in the slow lane. I stumbled across an ASS 5spd trans and used some of my left over money to grab that for $750. I put it in the '85 and found myself happily climbing The Grade at 55mph and 3500rpm.
Then, I thought, "Wouldn't it be nice to have some of those later bells and whistles?" Power windows, power locks, power mirrors... The hunt was on for a later model Carrat with a dead engine. Months went by and not a one near by. I finally decided to just grab a GL van that had all the power goodies but no jump seats. Paid a little too much at $800, considering the crappy mop and glow paint job that was showing it's age. However, I sold or traded the auto trans and some 2.1 bits I would not need for more than I paid and now I had three vans. Two weeks later a Carrat popped up on CL for $500 with a bad motor and a worn body... now I had 4 vans. Sold the auto trans and more 2.1 bits and got my money back.
A couple of years had gone by at this point and the price of gas was killing me in my full size truck pulling a trailer full of tools. I thought, "Wouldn't it be great if I could park the truck and use a van?" I didn't want to strip out one of the other vans because I knew it would be too easy to loose little bits and pieces if I tried to store them. besides, I had sold off the trannies and lots of little 2.1 bits. It would cost too much to put one of them on the road. The search was on again!
This time I had a plan... I knew how many vans where being sold at the insurance auctions that where in half decent shape with either fairly minor cosmetic damage (that I would not care about in a work vehicle) or burnt up engines. I had continued to wheel and deal in parts on CL and had a large assortment of 1.9 parts and accessories to work with. When a very nice '84 tintop with very minor looking fire damage came up, I grabbed it. I pulled some wiring from the later vans to fix the rear lights. I had enough spares to replace all the 1.9 specific wires, hoses and ECU that where melted. In a few days I had it running. The tranny was sparkling clean and was so quiet and smooth that it had to be less than a year old. Despite some crusty edges on the rubber head gaskets, when I fired it up it ran perfect and didn't drip a drop of oil or water! Compression was 150psi give or take 5psi across the board! We had a winner! I stripped out the funky home made interior and in went my tools. I now spend half as much on gas as I used to. At 18k miles a year, that adds up!
So there you have it. I have 5 vans. I'd like to think I have perfectly sane reasons for getting here. I don't drive the '85 anymore because it started to have an over heating problem and I didn't want to spend money on a van that will get stripped and crushed. My wife has been sick for the last two years and medical bills keep piling up so I can't afford the money to do the full repairs and paint on the '82 chassis. On the bright side, with the help of The Samba Classifieds and CL, my $1500 seed money for parts has blossomed into a garage full of 5spd tannies and enough parts to build at least two vans with carrat style interiors. My wife seems to be over the hump with her medical issues and I am optimistic that this fall I will finally be able to build the "Ultimate Franken Westy Weekender". We'll see.
So, Abelabelabel, at two vans you may have dove in a little deeper than most, but you are still at the shallow end of the pool :D :D
Hans |
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| WestyBob |
Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:20 am |
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Longtime Vw bus/van ownership has always been considered a disease.
I've had it for many decades.
I'm not sure about a cure.
I suspect many who have it may not want a cure. ;-) |
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| Abelabelabel |
Tue Jul 21, 2015 9:27 am |
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@ Hans:
Glad to hear your wife is doing well. Wow, humbled by how far you were able to stretch that seed money in to what sounds like an awesome lot of Vanagon gear. |
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| Abelabelabel |
Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:43 pm |
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Guys.
Getting ready to cut my losses in style, again. Have found another good van that has much more potential than "Pete." Don't want to have three vans and get stuck with having to pay for temporary storage for more than a month.
A very over-mechanicked van may be showing up on the samba ads section here soon.
Steel fuel lines (I think, can't remember)
Steel brake lines
Steel coolant lines
Resealed gas tank
New shocks - Bilstein
New leveled suspension springs
Master Brake Cylinder replaced
LED cluster lights
New Hancook Tires
Painted stock rims.
Lot's of overkill work by POs as well.
I know I will be taking a massive "loss" on this, but need to free up resources for a better longterm project. 8) |
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| vegpedlr |
Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:01 am |
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I'm new to the affliction as well, just over one year. After I finally diagnosed the cooling system gremlins a s a very small head gasket leak and fixed it, it's been smooth sailing.
Except for the routine maintenance. Now it needs brake lines. And rear brakes. And rear wheel bearings. Well, what can you expect for a 30 yr old vehicle with over 380K miles?
A lot more fun is what I expect! |
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| DwarfVader |
Mon Aug 03, 2015 6:21 pm |
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hdenter wrote: jobenaus wrote: With one you might have got away with a lapse in judgement or mild touch of insanity....but two........ ;)
Crap!! I have five! Where does that put me on the scale of insanity? :shock:
I started out so innocent... I had decided to sell my '69 ghia vert project and to use the proceeds to purchase a van and fix it up for the family to camp in; like I did when I was young. I had $3500 to work with after I sold the ghia 'vert. I was looking for a weekender for a good price and found an '85 that was rusty, but complete. It ran great with a bit of a loud ring&pinion. Got it for $1500 plus a couple hundred in back DMV. I though "Great!, with the rest of the money I can fix it up nice!" Not being as familiar with them as I am now, I did not realize how bad the seam rust was and how much work it would take to make it look presentable. I soon found myself looking for a dead van with a nice shell.
I found an '82 diesel chassis shell that was rust free with one bad dent in the side. It had a current and clean title/registration. I thought "Perfect! my friend Phil will fix the dent and I can swap the interior and drive train from the '85 over to it." No more smog issues. I could do a SVX and not worry about CARB. Best of all, it was basically free! I traded the guy for my basket case doner '74 hard top ghia coup that I still had laying around.
Meanwhile, I was driving the '85 a lot and was getting tired of climbing the local grade at 45mph in the slow lane. I stumbled across an ASS 5spd trans and used some of my left over money to grab that for $750. I put it in the '85 and found myself happily climbing The Grade at 55mph and 3500rpm.
Then, I thought, "Wouldn't it be nice to have some of those later bells and whistles?" Power windows, power locks, power mirrors... The hunt was on for a later model Carrat with a dead engine. Months went by and not a one near by. I finally decided to just grab a GL van that had all the power goodies but no jump seats. Paid a little too much at $800, considering the crappy mop and glow paint job that was showing it's age. However, I sold or traded the auto trans and some 2.1 bits I would not need for more than I paid and now I had three vans. Two weeks later a Carrat popped up on CL for $500 with a bad motor and a worn body... now I had 4 vans. Sold the auto trans and more 2.1 bits and got my money back.
A couple of years had gone by at this point and the price of gas was killing me in my full size truck pulling a trailer full of tools. I thought, "Wouldn't it be great if I could park the truck and use a van?" I didn't want to strip out one of the other vans because I knew it would be too easy to loose little bits and pieces if I tried to store them. besides, I had sold off the trannies and lots of little 2.1 bits. It would cost too much to put one of them on the road. The search was on again!
This time I had a plan... I knew how many vans where being sold at the insurance auctions that where in half decent shape with either fairly minor cosmetic damage (that I would not care about in a work vehicle) or burnt up engines. I had continued to wheel and deal in parts on CL and had a large assortment of 1.9 parts and accessories to work with. When a very nice '84 tintop with very minor looking fire damage came up, I grabbed it. I pulled some wiring from the later vans to fix the rear lights. I had enough spares to replace all the 1.9 specific wires, hoses and ECU that where melted. In a few days I had it running. The tranny was sparkling clean and was so quiet and smooth that it had to be less than a year old. Despite some crusty edges on the rubber head gaskets, when I fired it up it ran perfect and didn't drip a drop of oil or water! Compression was 150psi give or take 5psi across the board! We had a winner! I stripped out the funky home made interior and in went my tools. I now spend half as much on gas as I used to. At 18k miles a year, that adds up!
So there you have it. I have 5 vans. I'd like to think I have perfectly sane reasons for getting here. I don't drive the '85 anymore because it started to have an over heating problem and I didn't want to spend money on a van that will get stripped and crushed. My wife has been sick for the last two years and medical bills keep piling up so I can't afford the money to do the full repairs and paint on the '82 chassis. On the bright side, with the help of The Samba Classifieds and CL, my $1500 seed money for parts has blossomed into a garage full of 5spd tannies and enough parts to build at least two vans with carrat style interiors. My wife seems to be over the hump with her medical issues and I am optimistic that this fall I will finally be able to build the "Ultimate Franken Westy Weekender". We'll see.
So, Abelabelabel, at two vans you may have dove in a little deeper than most, but you are still at the shallow end of the pool :D :D
Hans
god damn man.... and I'm still trying to figure out how to afford my first one. |
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| Corwyn |
Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:05 pm |
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| Yep . . . he's got it bad! "Vanagonitis": a sensually-transmitted disorder. |
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