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  View original topic: Headlight switch/starting issue
Blue66 Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:03 am

Ok I have two issues.
1st. I have power going to the headlight switch but none coming out to ignition. Bad headlight switch? When I bypass power to ignition switch will not start off key. Yes this is a 6 volt system. :?

2nd. Car will start and run on relay switch when engine is cold. If I drive for any longer than 15 minutes engine cranks very slow and won't start until cools down a bit. I have checked all grounds and have good voltage at starter under load from 6.5 to 5.8 when starting. When engine is warm screwdriver or relay makes no difference (still to slow to catch). Timing is good, and engine runs great. Optima battery, starter about 1 1/2 years old. Could a bad starter cause this? I have been chasing this issue for a while.

Eric&Barb Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:06 am

Year of VW?

sjbartnik Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:25 am

Blue66 wrote: Ok I have two issues.
1st. I have power going to the headlight switch but none coming out to ignition. Bad headlight switch? When I bypass power to ignition switch will not start off key. Yes this is a 6 volt system. :?

Not entirely clear what you mean here but your headlight switch should have 2 terminals labeled 30. One gets power in from the battery and one sends it out to the fuse box. If this pass-through isn't happening then yeah that would seem to point to a bad headlight switch. Check and make sure one of your wires hasn't come loose from its terminal.

The red wire should go from headlight switch to fuse box, then without passing through the fuse there's another red wire that goes from that same point on fuse box to ignition switch.

Seems the easy way to diagnose headlight switch would be to remove the two red wires from headlight switch and join them together. If everything then works as it should (except lights of course) then that would point to headlight switch.

grandpa pete Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:44 am

Eric&Barb wrote: Year of VW?

What's the matter ???? Your crystal ball not working this morning ??
I'm with you ; I'm not going to research anything without specific info ; just because the avatar says blue66 we don't know how many cars he/she has and which one is being questioned . How many 66's still have 6 volt ??

COME ON people help us help you !!!!

Blue66 Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:05 pm

yes it's a 66, sorry should have mentioned that. No power from headlight switch to ignition. How does the switch come out anyhow, I don't see a ring or retainer?

sjbartnik Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:14 pm

Blue66 wrote: yes it's a 66, sorry should have mentioned that. No power from headlight switch to ignition. How does the switch come out anyhow, I don't see a ring or retainer?

If it's like other VW switches of the era, you unscrew the knob, then use an escutcheon tool to remove the escutcheon ring that holds the switch to the dash.

Cusser Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:17 pm

grandpa pete wrote: What's the matter ???? Your crystal ball not working this morning ?? I'm with you ; I'm not going to research anything without specific info ; just because the avatar says blue66 we don't know how many cars he/she has and which one is being questioned . How many 66's still have 6 volt ?? COME ON people help us help you !!!!

Same thoughts here. I just typically ignore posts that have practically zilch information. I wonder if some posters think we all remember EVERYTHING about EVERYONE's VWs.

Blue66 Sun Aug 30, 2015 4:08 pm

The wire coming from the headlight switch to fuse box then to ignition switch does not have any power. I have a hot wire from relay switch now that is adding power and allows the car to start, just not with switch. Relay is button under dash that engages the starter after key is turned to on position and it will start when engine is cool then, just not after driving a few minutes, then starter just cranks the engine to slow.

Eric&Barb Sun Aug 30, 2015 5:35 pm

Well having wiring problems up front is not going to be caused by a bad starter. Go thru sjbartnik's post above, test, and report back.

Bypassing the ignition switch at the starter solenoid and having a slow starter is a different matter.
Either you have a wiring problem in the rear, especially between starter and battery, or your starter is going bad, or the front or rear starter bushing are going bad. Having even one bad starter bushing can quickly lead to shorted out starter.

Have you removed BOTH battery cable at BOTH ends for a good cleaning, dielectric greasing and tightening back down? Have you done same with the body to transaxle ground strap??
Replace ANY of those cables if you have any suspicion of them, or install from another VW each of those known good cables to see if it makes a difference.

Did you polish the surfaces and dielectric grease up those where the starter and transaxle mount together for a good clean ground there?

Blue66 Mon Aug 31, 2015 5:48 am

The ground strap has been removed and cleaned. All connections have been cleaned as well. I realize they two issues are probably not connected, just going on at same time. I think I have answered my own question on switch(replacement).

After all the research, sounds like the starter fails when it gets warm, which makes me believe the solenoid is bad. When it's warm outside say 90 degrees or above I get very concerned about shutting car off and the certainty car will start again even after a 15 min drive. This sounds like replacement as well. Just trying to be sure before spending the money on quality parts.

Eric&Barb Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:02 am

Blue66 wrote:
After all the research, sounds like the starter fails when it gets warm, which makes me believe the solenoid is bad. When it's warm outside say 90 degrees or above I get very concerned about shutting car off and the certainty car will start again even after a 15 min drive. This sounds like replacement as well. Just trying to be sure before spending the money on quality parts.

Doubt if it is the starter solenoid that is causing the problem. Even so you can rebuild it or replace just the solenoid.

While you have the starter out you need to inspect both bushings, starter brushes must be longer than the cages they seat into, and polish/grease the mounting point of the starter.

Trouble starting at higher outside temps could be your carb is dripping fuel down the intake, or even the accelerator nozzle is partly plugged.

As to replacing the headlight switch, you have not been clear. Did you connect the two power wires together and get electrical flow to the fuse box? Without this test you could have a bad wire and replacing a good switch...

grandpa pete Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:42 am

Blue66 wrote: I have a hot wire from relay switch now .

did someone add a hard start relay ?

that points to a dirty / old starter circuit that had problems ( usually bad grounds) in the past .

Blue66 Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:42 am

The relay was added many years ago by a previous owner. I have checked the wires and can get power to lights. Not sure of connection of fuel going down the carb would slow the cranking ability down, but will check anyway.

Eric&Barb Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:03 am

Can be a two problem thing happening at same time. Slow starter can be due to mechanical or electrical problem. When engine is cold you have less compression, when engine is warmed up there should be more compression. This latter situation means starter has to work harder to turn the engine over, which in turn can mean a noticeably slower starter, especially if wiring is not up to snuff.

Add in carb dripping fuel down intake in hot weather flooding the engine and you have a dynamic duo of disappointment, and very quickly the battery gets too drained down.

Found we needed to add a second sealing washer between the top of the carb and the carb shut off valve. This moved the valve down slightly so the float below it shoves a little harder upward to shut it off.
This in a 1960 bus with 12 volt system and 6 volt starter!



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