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Mon Feb 23, 2004 4:01 pm

hello folks,
today is oil change day and the place where i am staying on the beach has a fairly decent slope in the driveway. a friend said its technically illegal to change oil on the street in cali, so i'm wondering if the grade in the driveway is okay--my instincts tell me that if the front of the bus is higher up then it should be fine. but i prefer to hear some votes of confidence.

and a couple more things, i read in the idiot book that the engine should be warm so the oil will be thinner and flow out completely. how much time does this take--just a few minutes at idle or considerably more. and i thought that all buses were type II. but whats the deal with type IV. i thought that was like a squareback engine.

thanks
matthew

Mon Feb 23, 2004 4:24 pm

If you run the engine for say 3 minutes it will come out a little quicker. Don't run it too long otherwise the hot oil will scald you if you spill any.

The drain hole is roughly in the middle of the sump: drain it on a flat surface to get it all out.

Mon Feb 23, 2004 4:34 pm

busses are type 2. but up till 1972 they had type 1 upright engines in em. after that thay had type 4 engines in them ( pancake ). depending on how ling its ben since you changed the filter screen you might wanna do that to. its right next to the oil drain plug. new ones only cost 3 bucks and change the gaskets too ( it will help stop leaks. ) ratwell is right about only letting it go for 2-3 minutes or you will get burnt. first on your arm then on the forehead by the muffler when you try to get out of there fast. i used to change my oil on the street in cali all the time. think of it this way, do you really want to be under the wheels of a bus parked on a slope? i think they may have made a rule because of people draining oil onto the road.

Mon Feb 23, 2004 5:08 pm

thanks guys,
good to know. i will get the oil screen. i am a little scared of those tender little bolts, though. i dont have a torque wrench and have never seen one used. i guess its something i should have as i'm getting ready to change the plugs. i'd rather not get el cheapo model at autozone. where can i get a better quality one. are there any places that sell used tools like this. call me a dork but i just love the aesthetic of older, well made tools. i just bought a timing light off ebay that is probably from the sixties and i love it.

thanks again

Mon Feb 23, 2004 5:19 pm

sorry i should have looked on ebay first. is this model the kind of thing i need:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2381027515&category=42265

i hope so cause i love the look of it.
thanks

Mon Feb 23, 2004 5:38 pm

Old tools are cool but that ebay item is what I call a dork wrench. Get the more modern clicker type without the pointy needle. You might as well make a homemade one if you go with that style.

You need at least two torque wrenches to work on a VW. The exact ranges are a matter of debate and cost. Basically you need two: one in inch pounds that goes to 250 in lbs. (20 ft. lbs) and one in ft. lbs. from 10-100 ft lbs to do it right.

There are a few bolts like the caliper bolts on disk brakes that requires 116 ft. lbs where a larger torque wrench would be better. Spending money on a wrench to torque the rear axle nut to 253 ft. lbs. isn't worth it for the one use you'll get out of it. The range of the brands make it expensive to select an effective combination of two that accurate covers the range of torque values.

Sears items on sale are a good deal and good place to start. eBay has good prices but I've always been scared to buy something used that is supposed to be calibrated from there. I'd either invest in something like Sears or go bargain basement via Harbor Freight tools when getting started. Most of the other brands are really pricey. If you can afford Snapon/Facom/etc, go for it. It's too bad that Kobalt torque wrenches go for more than new on eBay because they aren't available anymore.

Mon Feb 23, 2004 5:49 pm

i hear you ratwell, and appreciate your advice. its only cool if it works well. i think i'll head to sears tomorrow and go from there.

peace
matthew

Mon Feb 23, 2004 5:53 pm

I don't work for Sears or have a large stash of their tools: it's just there's one in every neighbourhood and they have a large selection of everything.

Their catalog has even more items that are not available in the store and if you can't get free shipping with in store pickup you can always order it online and have it delivered to home.

Their sales are frequent and they are usually well stocked and restock often. The last time I was in the store the tool I bought ended up being 88 cents after the $10 off discount. They really want you to shop there! Other times if it's $99.99 and you get $15 off on purchases over $100 the computer makes you buy something else for at least a cent if you can find it.

With so much stuff made in China these days it's becoming hard and harder to find good stuff. Sears is weird in that regard. They just started to stock Facom pliers but still sells those garbage screwdrivers. The tools at Pep Boys etc are all pretty crummy and don't let the Stanley name fool you.

Mon Feb 23, 2004 5:56 pm

deterbug, Keep in mind when you buy a torque wrench that the clicker type require periodic calibration (yearly on most). I only say this because a torque wrench that is out of cal. is no good to anyone. At least with the "dork" type wrench shown in the ebay ad calibration is a breeze, just make sure it is pointing to zero!

Mon Feb 23, 2004 6:05 pm

toddb_67 wrote: deterbug, Keep in mind when you buy a torque wrench that the clicker type require periodic calibration (yearly on most).
I depends on usage and how consitent you are about resetting it to zero before you put it away every time. If you only use it 3 times a year you don't have to worry.

Quote: At least with the "dork" type wrench shown in the ebay ad calibration is a breeze, just make sure it is pointing to zero!
Then it will apply zero ft. lbs. exteremely accurately. Too bad about the rest of the scale. :(

Calibration just means that it's within a certain range of error values (ANSI standard or another). When you get a NIST cert with your torque wrench (more money) it tells you for example, that at 25 ft lbs. it really is reading 26.2 ft lbs. Calibration doesn't make it exactly 25. When you reclaibrate it you get a tweaked unit and another document with the recorded error. Of all the companies that sell torque wrenches only a few recalibrate them. Snapon is such a company and the cost varies depending on the wrench. $65-70 is a ball park figure for an average wrench. At those prices, unless you spend $250 to buy a really sweet unit a mechanic might subject to daily abuse, you might as well buy a new one for peace of mind and savings.

Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:08 pm

Keep in mind that you are only going for 5 foot pounds on those little cap nuts at the oil screen. That isn't much. Be gentle. You can use some liquid teflon sealer on the last 2 threads of the bolt if you want.

Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:23 pm

i am probably not the wisest for admitting this but i never use a torque wrench....oil filter, hand tight.........drain plug, snug it up by hand and give it a 3/4 - 1 full turn with a wrench. thats just the way i do it. it would probably be better to use a torque wrench but this is how my dad tought me.....by the way i replaced all the gaskets on the drain plug and strainer screen today and for the first time in years---not 1 drop of oil on the ground after running and sitting for 6 hours!!!!!
i also agree that old tools are the way to go... i collect utica drop forge tools. my grandpa worked there for 20 years.

Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:00 pm

The center drain plate nut (13mm) on the Type 4 is tightened to 9 ft/lbs,
5 could be leaky, if not catastrophic should it back out. . .
The 17mm drain plug I have always done Nice Little Jerk On Wrench.
The oil filter spin on til contact add 1/2 to 3/4 in summer, 3/4 + in winter.
Colin

Tue Feb 24, 2004 6:47 am

"He rebuilds engines and his name is Earl,
He's the Charlie Daniels of the torque wrench"

Can't get those country music lyrics out of my head. :shock:

Good point there Colin,

I was thinking he was working on a type 1 engine, my mistake. Type 1 = 5 ft/pounds

Type 4= 9 ft/pounds on the center bolt.

The bigger question is, was it really neccessary to pass a law banning this activity on the street? Is it really that big of a problem in CA? No wonder they are broke.

Tue Feb 24, 2004 10:07 am

Randy in Maine wrote: The bigger question is, was it really neccessary to pass a law banning this activity on the street?
The people who think we can't do it without spilling some by the storm drain think so and are probably right.

I certainly don't want them mandating a special oil drain pan like they did with the gas cans.

In Europe they go out of their way to use ever increasingly weird drain plug sockets to prevent you from changing your own oil.

Tue Feb 24, 2004 10:12 am

yeah, and its true, i always spill A LITTLE oil. i always clean it up too. it seems strange to me to have a rule like that yet still allow the sale of vehicles getting 10 miles per gallon of gasoline. its a little different, because you cant see it in small amounts, but i consider it to be comperable.

Tue Feb 24, 2004 10:18 am

The environment and politics don't mix. When auto emissions reduce drastically and they simply allow industrial plants to pollute more by increasing their quotas to compensate, you have to give up on the politicians or vote them out.

Tue Feb 24, 2004 3:59 pm

ratwell wrote: The environment and politics don't mix. When auto emissions reduce drastically and they simply allow industrial plants to pollute more by increasing their quotas to compensate, you have to give up on the politicians or vote them out.

We have an opportunity coming up. . . I say vote 'em out.
(this is not a paid endorsement by or for any candidate)
Colin :D