TheSamba.com :: View topic - Real World Aux Heater Winter Camping Experiences

Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:17 am

Hello out there.

I've combed the forums for insights into choosing aux heaters.
It seems to me, after reading, the real choices for adding a new aux heater are the Espar (gas), Webasto (gas), and the Propex (LP) units.

I like the idea of heat from gasoline (easy to find, cheap). But dislike the $$$ associated with the espar/webasto units.

So part of what I am trying figure out is how many BTUs I really need?
And, what the real reliability of the various options is at higher altitudes?
I know everyone has different levels of tolerance to cold... but...

Anyone able to offer up some experience about using the propex or espar/webasto in winter season? at altitude? poptop up? poptop down?

Specifically, for me, I would like to be able to camp/boondock at ski resorts in Colorado... so this means temps low and altitudes high.

Any insights would be recommended.

Some data on available air heater units... for reference

Propex HS2000 - up to 6500btu - ~$700
Propex HS2211 - up to 6500btu - ~$800
Propex HS2800 - up to 9700btu - ~$800

Espar B1LCc
- up to 2900-6150 with boost to 7500btu
- ~$1595
- 12in x 5in x 5in
- 0.8-1.8 Amp, 2.8 Amp in Boost

Espar B3LCc
- up to 13000btu
- not sold in North America

Espar B4
- up to 3400-10200, boost to 13700btu
- ~$1950
- 14.8in x 5.9in x 5.5in
- 0.6-1.7 Amp, 4.2 Amp in boost

Webasto AirStop 2000ST
- 3100-7000btu
- ~heater alone~$1000, install kit cost?
- 12.25in x 4.78in x 4.85in
- 1.25-2.45Amp

Webasto Airstop EVO40
- 5100-12000btu, boost to 13000btu
- cost??
- 16.7in x 5.8in x 6.4in
- 1.25-3.3Amp, 4.58Amp (boost mode)

Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:08 am

i cant speak for altitudes much over 4K' but I do recommend you try a Mr. Heater Buddy before you drop serious coin on one of the units you've listed.

We've been very happy in single digit temps by cranking the little buddy for an hour or so and shutting it off just before we go to sleep. Decent sleeping bags and some nice blankets help. First one awake the next morning cranks it up before we venture out of our cocoons.

$70 at Walmart And it just may meet your needs...

Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:14 am

I also use Mr. Heater Buddy (have two different types) and call it good.

But if you want on-board heating then this is the guy to talk to (his name is Karl):

http://www.westyventures.com/

While he sells a particular brand, he can answer all your questions about on-board heaters and your particular circumstances and requirements.

Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:20 am

there are new (chinese) Gas heater clones for ~$600
I'm planning to try one in my beetle next year to extend my driving season & comfort.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-2KW-Diesel-Gasoline-Ai...9ltS9JN7vg

Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:21 am

Espar airtronic D2 heaters can be purchased new for around $1000 (full install kit). They use diesel or kerosene for fuel.

Since the fuel usage is so low (0.07Gal/hr on high) a small 1 or 2 gallon tank can easily be mounted inside the cabin.

This thread has some details.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...p;start=20

I have a medium sized high roof sprinter van with a D2 and it has no trouble keeping it warm. The only exception would be leaving the windows uncovered in sub zero temps.

Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:22 am

I have a Espar D2 installed in a 1985 Full Westy and my family loves it.

Two years ago in the cold of February we drove from Ontario Canada to Colorado, Utah, Nevada, Arizona and New Mexico. Temps dropped down to -10 c in some camps and never were we cold whatsoever.

We used the Justcampers window insulation from Busdepot, foam rubber flooring and the Franchers heavy duty poptop insulation kit. Temps stayed cozy at 18 c indoors with everyone getting a great rest.

The van is not diesel but I installed a removeable 3 gal. marine tank under the van beside the sliding door. So easy to fill up and never needing to find propane. A gas model would be even better though.

Camped at 6000ft maximum with no issues on the heat output or running.

The D2 was $900 canadian on ebay brand new.

Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:28 am

One note about Espar products. If you spend extended time above 5000ft elevation or so, you will need to purchase an altitude sensor (200-300$). This sensor connects to the D2/B2 and allows it to adjust fuel output to prevent coking due to lower air density.

Brief operation (a day or two) above 5000ft appear to have no ill effects.

Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:13 pm

I have an HS2000 in a Syncro Hightop in Oregon. It provides barely enough heat when the outside temp is much below freezing and is on almost constantly (for an internal temperature of 65+). In your case I would definitely go for the HS2800 or a more powerful gasoline Espar for much more $'s.

Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:25 pm

This is so subjective its hard to come up with any real answers.
There are so many variables.
What do you consider warm? I camped last night at 9000ft and 20f. I did not use a heater and slept nicely in my sleeping bag.
What I like is a heater that will get the van roasting in no time to warm me up if I have been out in cold weather for a while. If its cold outside, 5000btu is not even gonna come close to cutting it for that but will keep things from freezing in your van overnight.

Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:59 pm

Ive installed the Webasto Airtop 2000stc ( off fleabay) and initially had wiring/controller issues to get it up and running. Its now a rockstar. I have not camped above 3500' but have seen some 20 degree nights recently and it works well. I tried a Mr. Buddy and with limited use it creates a rain forrest inside the van. My wife , two 100lb dogs and myself exhaust alot of moisture too. The Webasto creates a dry air and also a slight breeze to move the air around. Keeps the 100lb dogs from trying to get under the covers too! I am buying another kit to install in another vehicle and be able to swap parts between to diagnose if they ever fail. I would recommend buying one state side as the US support does not recognize the 2000stc from Europe fyi.

I have a westy lp tank under my tin top for an lp camp fire in a can. I did not want to rely on filling a 2.7 gal tank to do both. Having the gasoline source makes sense. I wasnt going to pinch dollars to make sense.

Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:15 pm

I am also of the Heater Buddy school. I run it between the two seats and angle a small fan on the pop top latch to move the air around the van. Keep the pop top screen cracked and the drivers side slider cracked. Keeps the van toasty....have an upper and lower CO alarm (I know that CO falls but hey...what the hell) and have NEVER heard them go off. You can choke the fuel down below low slowly and it lowers the output from "low" which I have found to be more than ample and runs longer on a cylinder. The fan with the ventilation seemed to really reduce the condensation inside...almost non existent actually. Just camped in VT on some pretty darn cold nights and was more than pleased with the performance.

Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:27 pm

Catalytic heaters don't produce CO because they burn at low temp. That is why they are safe and only have a tip over switch and a low Ox shutoff but are still certified for indoor use. You need to keep them clean, and a cover on them when not in use.

The problem is they don't work at high altitude as the low Ox trips. I used one until I moved to Colorado. I didn't have a big problem with condensation, but it isn't a great heater for a family and pets. For me it was a decent low cost occassional use heater.

Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:01 pm

Another for the Buddy heaters. The Big Buddy has the ability to run on low for 11 continuous hours, which I wanted to be able to sleep without running out. The smaller Buddy model won't hold enough to go all night (1 bottle vs 2 in bigger model). It also has a D cell powered blower to circulate the heat. It also puts out more BTUs than the built in models and you can sit outside the van with it, use it other places or for emergency heat in the house. We used ours last week for the huge storm we had that knocked out power. It puts out a whopping 18,000 BTUs. A lot to like.

In the van, I've found that just having the pilot light on heats up the heating plate and creates enough radiant heat for merely cold nights. Coming back to a cold van from a night snow shoe hike and cranking it is an amazing experience. You'll be in a Tshirt and comfy in short order.

Doug

Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:24 pm

I have a Propex HS2211. It works GREAT for everywhere I go (so far not higher than 4000') down to 32* (even with the top up). It's "ok" at colder temps, but heavier sleeping bags and/or top down are required for the same comfort at or above 32*. Given what you stated, I'd opt for the HS2800. Better to have more BTUs when you need them than wish you did. Another consideration with any Propex is the size of your LP tank (3.0 Gal OEM, 3.3 GW Standard Tank, or 5.9 GW Larger Capacity Tank). Of course there is always the "Temp Refill Adapter": http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1567630 or an Extend-A-Stay: http://www.adventurerv.net/extendastay-standard-pr...ce=Froogle

A pro for the Espar is that at any given moment you have up to 14 gallons of reserve heating fuel available :wink: . However, a con is the exhaust fumes :( .

Regardless of the type of heater you end up choosing, proper insulation (body, windows, top) will reduce your fuel costs and add to your overall comfort. A lot of folks put up a blanket as a divider between the cab and the rear. This alone can make a huge difference.

Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:37 pm

I have the Espar B1 heater installed. It is awesome with the pop top down parked at the ski resort, but there is a ton of thermal loss with the pop top up. I do not use any poo top insulation or such. Don't want to be hauling any extra stuff around. It works awesome. I sleep in a zero degree bag and reach up and flip it on 15 minutes before I want to get up.

Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:37 pm

I have the Espar B1 heater installed. It is awesome with the pop top down parked at the ski resort, but there is a ton of thermal loss with the pop top up. I do not use any pop top insulation or such. Don't want to be hauling any extra stuff around. It works awesome. I sleep in a zero degree bag and reach up and flip it on 15 minutes before I want to get up.

Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:46 pm

I used my new Webasto 3900 in the mountains the last 2 days and it was overkill. It is rated 5800 to 13,300 BTUs. I had the thermostat set to around 60 all night, high teens outside, 8000 foot elevation with the top up. Once it got up to temp the heater switched off several tmes which tellis me it didn't need the even minimum output to maintain the temperature under those conditions.

It will be massive overkill when I am using it for Spring and Fall camping in Utah.

Note however, this was the Webasto, the Espar B4 is 4000 to 13000 BTUs so it would handle lower demand better. But still I think if I were on the fence, I would go with the smaller one as there are many other advantages besides price.

Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:23 pm

I just installed a mr buddy heater inside the van. Ran a new propane line from the tank and routed it above my fridge (Truckfridge, no more propane fridge). I just tested it for 3 nights in Joshua Tree National Park last weekend. It was in the 40's at night (I know thats not too cold), but I had it on its lowest setting and it kept the van toasty enough that we had to crack a couple of the poptop windows (yes I have a CO alarm too). Running off the built in LP tank I got 2.5 nights out of it with using the stove and a few hours of heater use in between before bed. Great cheap solution IMO.

Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:05 am

Dollar for Dollar, ease of installation, and the amount of heat it produces, the buddy heater is the best bargain--most bang for the buck--

In My opinion.

Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:46 am

Who needs a heater? A well insulated camper, several sleeping bags, blankets, reflective covering and a warm, high calorie meal before bed. A heater creates moisture which freezes on the inside of the windshield and windows. No need to wear clothes to bed, but keep them inside the bags so they don't freeze stiff. The only problem has been the moustache freezing to the pillow and no unfrozen water to drink. The bus warms up nicely when it snows at night. Use the heater in the morning with the windows opened. A worker in Siberia has said, "If you're cold eat a cube of butter."

Aloha
tp