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Thu Dec 31, 2015 8:22 am

Hi guys.
I run 1960 type 2 and would like to put on front discs. So, one option (not so good for me) would be to buy Saco's 5x205. To get those delivered to Europe is the same price as a set itself.
Second one would be to use late bay discs with early bay beam. That should fit good.

My questions are:
Would late bay discs (+ adapter plate from 5x112 to 5x205) with early bay beam be too wide (or wider than original type 2 1960 beam)?
Do I need to change master from split to late bay?

thx
K

Thu Dec 31, 2015 9:09 am

Yes and yes. My question is why change the beam? I'm guessing your spindles, link pins are worn out? Only the early bay beam will bolt right in, but they had drum brakes, so what will you gain? The front will sit a bit higher too. What is your goal? A stock height bus with discs on a budget? I'm not sure if copying my formula would be legal for Euro regulations, but I found it to be the cheapest way to get amazing stopping power. Here's my formula for my 1960 truck:

Used Porsche 944 front brakes from a mid 80's non turbo car
-rotors
-calipers
-bearing hubs
-grease caps
-fabrication work locally or buy a kit on the samba (hub needs to be machined to fit the early spindle and early bearings. Caliper bracket needs to made. Grease cap needs to be made to fit over the long spindle, 944 cap cut in half-the part that presses into hub with your early bus cap welded to the top of the Porshe cap
-5x130 to 5x205 adapter pair
-late bay master with Rabbit fluid reservoir
-master cylinder adapter bracket (I made mine out of a deep socket I cut in half, and the bolt on flange part I cut off a dead stock master cylinder)
-a few bubble flare metal brake lines

What I like about it is that the speedo cable will still work and the stock bus brake hose is the same as Porsche. Used calipers are likely to be in great shape if the car is low mileage and not corroded. Fairly inexpensive and replacement parts can be found easily. PM me if you need more info, I thought the conversion was pretty easy and I spent around $500 total.

If you are running the early big slot 15" wheels, the edges of the slots may rub the caliper. This depends on how thick your wheel adapter is. Mine BARELY rubbed. You can add a very thin spacer or do what I did and very lightly grind the back of the wheel slots and the thick casting of the caliper. I don't mean to grind the hell out if it, just polish the rough edges and keep test fitting. If you look at my pics, you can't even tell.

Nobody can even tell it's a bit wider, only a serious bus person could even tell.

Thu Dec 31, 2015 10:05 am

The easiest way is to order this kit:

http://www.creative-engineering.com/index.php?page...;Itemid=26

Thu Dec 31, 2015 10:46 am

The CSP stuff is nice, but for a heavy bus you might as well get the vented rotor kit. It's $2000 plus shipping from Creative. What you DO get for the money is German TUV approval. But then, you still have to do the master cylinder..... I don't think there's a cheaper, better performing setup than the 944 conversion. I challenge someone to justify the extra cost of the CSP, other than legal reasons.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1708791

This is where I got my brackets. They will also sell you 944 hubs machined for 62 and earlier spindles. If shipping is still expensive, you can always just support your local machine/welding shops. The other thing about 944 kits, is you can find or buy pieces one at a time. Not everyone can afford to spend thousands in one purchase.

Thu Dec 31, 2015 1:31 pm

I would love to have new discs from CSP but unafordable at the moment.

Roachdub no offence but I don't think I would manage 944 with my knowledge at the moment that's one thing and to get the parts would be difficult, that's another one.

I now have lowered beam and flipped spindles driving on bug's 15 inches. I am thinking of using early bay bare beam and put on discs from late bay. Would't that be OK?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 5:21 pm

I've got a CSP kit on my panel and really like it. I've also got a Wolfgang kit on another bus. It works very well also. This might fit what you want a little better.
https://www.wolfgangint.com/store/product/bus-front-disc-brake-conversions-kit-2615107a/
All easy to get Bay parts. You end up with the late Bay bolt pattern, so adapters will be needed. I don't remember the effect on width, but a quick call to Wolfgang would answer that. Running the standard Bay master conversion on both.

Thu Dec 31, 2015 5:36 pm

Klemen Klemen wrote: I would love to have new discs from CSP but unafordable at the moment.

Roachdub no offence but I don't think I would manage 944 with my knowledge at the moment that's one thing and to get the parts would be difficult, that's another one.

I now have lowered beam and flipped spindles driving on bug's 15 inches. I am thinking of using early bay bare beam and put on discs from late bay. Would't that be OK?

Yes, it will work. You will have to start all over if you want it low. Also, you will probably have to install new ball joints and tie rod ends which are different from a 60. After all that, it will sit higher in the front than a stock 60 bus. It seems like more work than just bolting some calipers and brackets onto your flipped spindles. Your current suspension required way more effort than the CSP and 944 kits combined. The 944 is not the most desirable Porsche, so parts are easy to find and there are European shops selling the stuff. If you still want bay brakes, I still think it's a better idea to adapt them to your current spindles.

Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:21 am

It can be done with the early bay beam and late spindles. Better if you narrow it. Stock width will fit with 15" bus wheels and adapters too. As long as you don't want to set it on the ground.

My first. '59 with stock width early bay beam with '75 spindles drilled to Porsche pattern

And second, my buddy's '65 Deluxe with the same beam setup with adapters to wide 5.

Had to adapt the draglink to mate to the bay beams. [/img]

Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:22 am

Jeremy rockjock has some info here on thesamba with an adapter bracket to add bay rotors and calipers directly to the later style linkpin spindles.

Jeremy sent me digital drawing for a CNC mill to fabricate.
I no longer have a copy.

If I remember right, bay rotors are a direct bolt on to the later style spindles.

Pages 10-11 of this thread,

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...;start=200

Thu May 05, 2016 12:39 am

Have you figured this out yet? Because I have. The outer and inner bearings are Timken and they fit the spindle and the bay hub. We are about to get started on doing this to early spindles and there should be no machine work.
I'll tell you what I've found so far, but I can't prove any of it yet. Soon though.

Thu May 05, 2016 4:21 am

Kurt (glideking) has been running the bay adapters from Wolfgang on his stock beam years before his restoration of funky truck.

Here is the link to Wolfgangs ad.

https://www.wolfgangint.com/store/product/bus-front-disc-brake-conversions-kit-2615107a/

Thu May 05, 2016 5:48 am

One other thing to consider is that using an early Bay beam you can't get as low as flipped spindles without using dropped ball joint spindles. And even then you may run into clearance issues. My '62 DC had a '68 beam with '73 trailing arms, spindles and brakes. When I wanted to lower it I eventually had to use Old Speed spindles which lowered it fine. But there were suspension travel issues that were unsatisfactory. This is one reason that Bay guys will use a Split Bus beam in their bus to get an affordable dropped front suspension with few issues. The 944 conversion has had the bugs worked out and is a superior choice.
And as far as the OPs issues with parts availability, I will bet it is a lot easier to locate and ship inexpensive greasy car parts using this website and specifically this Forum, if he is on a budget as most of us are.

Dan (bus works) did you develop the "special method" for drilling late bus hubs to accept Porsche (5x130) bolt pattern? I used it on my DC to mount NSU RO80 Fuchs to my bus about 10 years ago. Brian showed me how. They are still going strong in France. I posted how on here and caught considerable flak. But it worked great!

Thu May 05, 2016 6:54 am

I'll agree, the old method fo fitting Porsche pattern into bay hubs was not ideal, but it worked. I had mine done through my old school machinist back in the day. Besides, VWAG uses threaded studs on all their cars up to now.

As fa r as the bay beam in a split, it works. It's just wider. You have to narrow if you want tire tuck at all. I was able to get the front low with cut and turned beam and wonderful ride. Only bottomed out the ball joints when it was loaded and sittin really low. Add dropped spindles from Nate and you're good to go. Lower than needed. Did this in my Deluxe. Had the beam narrowed and stock set and 2 1/2" spindles. Rubbed tires in hard cornering, though. I think I could have eliminated this with a sway bar, but never got that far.

Sun May 08, 2016 4:28 am

Here's my current front disc project I'm working on. Modified bay hubs, Vanagon rotors, and Audi A6 calipers. The brackets are aluminum and threads are helicoiled to hold the anchor bolts. Still need to send them to the machine shop to get the bolt pattern redrilled.

I'll be using longer 1/2"x20 press in studs through the hubs.

Fri Mar 19, 2021 4:59 pm

Klemen Klemen wrote: Hi guys.
I run 1960 type 2 and would like to put on front discs. So, one option (not so good for me) would be to buy Saco's 5x205. To get those delivered to Europe is the same price as a set itself.
Second one would be to use late bay discs with early bay beam. That should fit good.

My questions are:
Would late bay discs (+ adapter plate from 5x112 to 5x205) with early bay beam be too wide (or wider than original type 2 1960 beam)?
Do I need to change master from split to late bay?

thx
K

Hello. I'm thinking of converting to 944 brakes on my 1960 panel van. Do you know how much wider wheelbase you have compared to the original? Is it wider just because of the spacer, or is it the 944 brakes themselves that build more outwards?

Thanks :D

Aleksander

Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:55 am

Check these out...
https://type-emotorsports.com/collections/type-2-brakes

Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:26 am

chrisflstf wrote: Check these out...
https://type-emotorsports.com/collections/type-2-brakes

1960?

Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:23 am

I don't know about Slovenia, but all of these options except for the CSP would not (easily) pass the German TÜV inspection, due to missing certifications.

I suggest you talk to your inspection authority before you spend any money.

Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:26 am

mdege wrote: I don't know about Slovenia, but all of these options except for the CSP would not (easily) pass the German TÜV inspection, due to missing certifications.

I suggest you talk to your inspection authority before you spend any money.

Rather not to as they most of the time don't know when major changes were done on these vehicles. If I ask more the more are the chanches that I will fail on techincal. :D