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Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:41 pm

Hello! My 67's engine is in dire need of a rebuild. With very little time right now to rebuild (plan to). I am in the meantime buying a rebuilt 1300 with 0 miles on it from a guy about an hour away. My bug is my daily driver and my kids way from and to school. So this engine came around at a perfect time. The question I have is concerning the rebuilt 1300. It was rebuilt over 10 years ago. He said there has always been oil in it, he would turn it to the next cylinder every couple months (with no distributor in :/), and put oil in each spark plug hole. If he really did? Its anyones guess. I paid $970 for it which is what he paid for it over 10 years ago. It was rebuilt by Archway Imports in St. Louis, Mo. Which I have heard only good things about. So should I worry about the engine being rebuilt that long ago? Anything I should do before or after I get it running? Any advise would be much appreciated! Thank you!

Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:22 pm

It depends...

If kept ion a nice dry place, its probably a great deal, if in a cold damp, wet garage, I would give it 50/50 odds. All that assuming that the rebuild is legit. Best way to find out is to drive it and change the oil a few times, the further it goes, the further it will go :-)

Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:59 am

I've been to archway in St. Louis. It's been there a long time and they are a full service parts store and machine shop. Is the fuel pump installed because if not the Dist drive gear can ride up and chew up the brass gear on crank. Spin it around to TDC on #1. With distributor out the offset on the drive gear will have larger side facing the fan shroud. Verify by checking intake and exhaust on #1 they should both be fully closed with .006 clearance. Other than that sounds like a good deal for you.

Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:17 am

As long as it has been taken care of, 10 years is nothing. I bet you install that motor, properly prime it, throw some gas and power to it, she will run and run fine. You have the motor, might as well try and start it.

Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:23 am

I run my used engine (built in 1986) that sat for 9 years in the side yard with zero "preservation efforts". That means no turning of the engine, no nothing.

It started right up, did need to replace the fuel pump (leaking) and the accelerator pump diaphragm (leaking). I drained the oil, added new, changed that a few hundred miles later. That was about 8-10 years ago, still running.

EDIT: I assume you know to match the 1967 size flywheel and clutch, and use the 1967 generator and electrics.

Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:38 am

Ask for a warranty of some sorts. The 1300 will get you there. Listen to it run if possible. I kinda would opt for 1600cc dual port.

Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:20 am

It would be out of the ordinary for it to actually be a 1300. The engine serial number begins with letter F which as you know was one year only 1966.

1300s were basically a 1200 using a 69mm crank with 77mm piston cylinder. If it was built just 10 years ago I'd bet it is actually a 1600 because the larger 85.5 piston/cylinders slip right in. The 1300 heads would require opening up to accept the bigger cylinders. Many folks just bolt on 67 up heads to make it work. If you can remove a valve cover and get the number off the head, this will be a clue and if it's the 67 up head you'll know it's been updated. You probably got a 1600 masquerading as a 1300.

Tue Apr 12, 2016 6:45 am

Thank you guys for the great reply's!

To answer your questions. Yes the fuel pump is on there. I saw where he had stored the engine, and yes it was a clean dry place. Pickin's are slim here in Missouri for engines. If I could have found a good 1600 dp then I probably would have grabbed that. I do still have my original 1500 sp and the 1600dp that I have in there now. And plan to rebuild both. My wife would probably like for me to get rid of one of them, but just can't put myself up to doing it. Is that wrong? :?

I currently have the new 1300 in the garage. I will post pictures soon. This weekend I will swap all the 12 volt stuff over and throw it in. Softly. Am I correct that as long as the 1600 and 1300's flywheel and crank are both o-ring that they are interchangable? And will the 12 volt generator fit in the 1300 fan shroud?

Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:39 am

ArtistGollaher wrote: Thank you guys for the great reply's!

To answer your questions. Yes the fuel pump is on there. I saw where he had stored the engine, and yes it was a clean dry place. Pickin's are slim here in Missouri for engines. If I could have found a good 1600 dp then I probably would have grabbed that. I do still have my original 1500 sp and the 1600dp that I have in there now. And plan to rebuild both. My wife would probably like for me to get rid of one of them, but just can't put myself up to doing it. Is that wrong? :?

I currently have the new 1300 in the garage. I will post pictures soon. This weekend I will swap all the 12 volt stuff over and throw it in. Softly. Am I correct that as long as the 1600 and 1300's flywheel and crank are both o-ring that they are interchangable? And will the 12 volt generator fit in the 1300 fan shroud?

I believe that the 1300 was a non o ring flywheel and crank. If I remember correctly you can mount an o ring flywheel on a non o ring crank but you have to leave the o ring off and use the gasket. I could be wrong about that though.

Of course you will need to reset the end play correctly. Since you will be adding the gasket and using a different flywheel you can count on having to buy some different shims. Don't skimp here. Setting it too tight and you can burn up the thrust bearing quickly. Too loose and you will end up pounding out the case around the thrust bearing.

Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:24 pm

If your engine was used and properly run in and when a previous owner replaced the oil and started the engine up and lubed it before removing it and vacuum bagged it I would say OK.
If the engine was a fresh rebuild and never been started and sat for ten years you will find that the assembly break in lube for the camshaft will have become dried out and be of no use. Without proper assembly lube the possibility of making your cam flat is a very real proposition. If I had one set that long it would have to come apart.

Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:54 pm

I remember an engine I bought in Arizona, which had set for many years in a non-climate-controlled garage. The heat over those years had turned whatever assembly lubes and oils into something like cosmoline, totally frozen.

Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:09 am

Yikes! Ok now i'm getting a little scared.

I don't have very many options right now. I can either drive the 1600 that I have in there now until it falls apart (could be soon). Till I can tear apart the 1300 and lube. Or break in the 1300 and pray for the best. It's my daily driver, so options are slim. He said he would turn it to the next cylinder occationally and lubed through the spark plug holes. Also stored in a dry place. Is there anything I could do during break in to help eliminate the threat? Additives etc?

Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:21 am

I heard something about pre-pressurizing the engine before the first turn. Anyone know if this would work?

Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:30 am

Well, your engine certainly wasn't left to sit, in a garage that probably got way over 100 degrees probably nearly every day for many years like mine was.

I like make sure there's oil in the pump before I start an engine, and that can usually be accomplished by using a small hand pump, pumping oil into the hole for the oil pressure switch while hand-turning the engine backwards. Once the pump gets primed, you'll have pressure pretty quick. Best to starter-crank it over that first time without the coil hooked up, so it won't fire, just crank until the oil light goes out, and then hook up the ignition and fire it up.

Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:37 am

For the $900 you would only get the air filter box for a modern car, so just assume it is fine, fit it and see how it runs. Not all things in life carry a warranty. Sometime you have to go on the looks of the seller and reputation of the engine builder and go for it.

Of course, change the oil and spin it by the starter without juice to the coil to have the oil circulated properly before you start it. I don't know if that is what they call pressurizing it, but of course you will be better off getting fresh oil to the bearings. Change the 5 pints of oil a couple of times after running the engine up to temp. I pulled my car out of 7 yrs storage, and did the same procedure, never a hitch after starting it.

Good luck.

Wed Apr 13, 2016 2:56 am

I think the first spin shall be made not only without spark, but without the spark plugs.

So there is no compression into cylinders and all dry bushing spin free; is better to no loading when no oil is present.

Wed Apr 13, 2016 4:57 am

Also, remove the rocker arms so there are no pressure on the push rods and lifters before you pre-oil the engine. Crank it over for a little while until you get oil pressure, then put your rocker arms, plugs back in. Fire it up.

Wed Apr 13, 2016 5:52 am

Cusser wrote: I run my used engine (built in 1986) that sat for 9 years in the side yard with zero "preservation efforts". That means no turning of the engine, no nothing.

It started right up, did need to replace the fuel pump (leaking) and the accelerator pump diaphragm (leaking). I drained the oil, added new, changed that a few hundred miles later. That was about 8-10 years ago, still running.

EDIT: I assume you know to match the 1967 size flywheel and clutch, and use the 1967 generator and electrics.

Isn't this a hoot the question was answered and now towards the end of the thread people are telling him to take it apart. Lol typical cut and paste answers by folks with little or no experience. One thing they left out, make damn sure your attempt to start occurs on an even numbered day of a full moon. :D

Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:22 am

Taking spark plugs out and rocker arms to pre-oil isn't really taking it apart, just a small step in getting oil in a dry motor. I did this step in my original 61 1200 that had been sitting for 15 years untouched...worked perfect. You are gonna have to change the plugs and adjust valves anyway...why not take the small precaution? I agree, taking it completely to pieces is overkill. Why not try and see if it runs. I got very lucky and saved myself a rebuild by trying my old 1200.

Zundfolge1432 wrote: Cusser wrote: I run my used engine (built in 1986) that sat for 9 years in the side yard with zero "preservation efforts". That means no turning of the engine, no nothing.

It started right up, did need to replace the fuel pump (leaking) and the accelerator pump diaphragm (leaking). I drained the oil, added new, changed that a few hundred miles later. That was about 8-10 years ago, still running.

EDIT: I assume you know to match the 1967 size flywheel and clutch, and use the 1967 generator and electrics.

Isn't this a hoot the question was answered and now towards the end of the thread people are telling him to take it apart. Lol typical cut and paste answers by folks with little or no experience. One thing they left out, make damn sure your attempt to start occurs on an even numbered day of a full moon. :D

Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:42 am

ArtistGollaher wrote: I heard something about pre-pressurizing the engine before the first turn. Anyone know if this would work?

People tend to the paranoid side here as their cars are their babies.

Put some oil in the cylinders, turn over a few times by hand, fresh oil in the crankcase, and fire it up and idle. Dont drive it, just leave it at no load. Listen for expensive noises, drain oil out once hot and look for parts. Strain new oil and put it back in.

You will be fine. Dont forget to come back and post up real world experience vs paranoid theory.

The "9X% of engine wear occurs on cold start' myth stays alive and well thanks to the internet.