TheSamba.com :: View topic - Inherited project; I need help on Diesel engine information.

Sat May 28, 2016 9:38 am

I have recently jumped into a Westphalia camper project with both feet.
To describe the working conditions as abysmal would be quite charitable.
I believe I have a 1982 chassis with an 88-90 T25 JX turbo-diesel engine. The JX head is scrap metal, but the project came with an AAZ long block.
The first major brick wall I've hit has to do with the timing cog off the JX. I can't get the bolt loose and I need that cog to put on the AAZ.
Would anyone out there know if those threads might be left hand? I got one squeak out of it trying to undo it counterclockwise and now it won't budge in either direction.
The bolt has a double hex 19mm head.
The camper is sitting on a dirt road a quarter mile from pavement. There is no practical way to get electricity to the camper and the ground is a bit moist, so no power tools. I really have no way to move the camper, and no place to move it to if I could.

Sat May 28, 2016 9:44 am

welcome ,it is westFalia. no 'ph' ;)
you should look up username epowell's threads about his ,as its similar to yours.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=640611&highlight=1.6+diesel

as for reverse threads, i doubt it. but also if you tighten and then loosen a stuck bolt it's sometimes helpful ,otherwise im sure persistence is the best bet. just dont chew the threads up can you use a cheater ? is the motor in place still?

Sat May 28, 2016 9:49 am

outcaststudios wrote: it is westFalia. no 'ph' ;)
Well, a curse on those spell checkers! They never do any good on spells anyway. So much easier where a camper is referred to as a California.
I don't see anything on that thread you suggested that indicates he ever needed to remove the crankshaft timing cog.
The block is still in the chassis. I have a 1/2" breaker bar on the socket. I have been searching for a suitable length of pipe.
I have seen more than one crank end bolt where the crank spun clockwise and the bolt had left hand threads. Quite common in old British motorcycle designs. Had the thought the Germans might have done the same.

Sat May 28, 2016 9:53 am

Is this Nekto's Van? Just guessing as he was also from CT

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=520871&highlight=

Sat May 28, 2016 2:37 pm

Does 'timing cog' mean the cam gear? If you're trying to remove the head, all you have to do to get the timing belt off is loosen the timing belt tensioner.

If it's the crank gear, then -- yeah, that's notoriously hard to remove. You'll find on here some descriptions and pictures of tools that people have made to loosen and tighten that bold. Again, there's no reason to remove it to get the timing belt off. If you loosened that bolt at all, you should replace it -- it's TTY

Sat May 28, 2016 2:39 pm

Okay, I missed your second post. So it is the crank. Why did you need to remove the bolt?

I have a big metal bar that I can bolt to the gear, where the pulley would go, which holds it in place. Then I use a big metal pipe on a breaker bar.

Sat May 28, 2016 4:29 pm

It is not reverse thread. You need a way to lock the crankshaft while you remove the bolt. In the thread above, if you read the 75 pages, there is about as much good information on diesels that you will find in one place. I am confused, but if you are installing another long block, where is that crank sprocket? It might be easier to purchase a new sprocket and bolt.

Sat May 28, 2016 5:37 pm

Well, a long piece of pipe was found. Even so, that was one stubborn bolt. It is out and the crank timing cog is in hand.
The local engineering consultant told me there has been research that showed having reverse threads on applications like that timing cog makes no difference if the parts are keyed together. With a bit of reflection, I can't recall any of those rotating shafts that had left hand fasteners were built after 1960. A few of them did not have keys.
So, with that solved, onto the next question;
Is there anyone out there who has installed the 1.9 block with all the 1.6 turbo accessories? The sparse information i have from the previous incarnation tells me the boost was rather anemic with the K14. But it looks like that turbo is better suited to a larger engine.
What should I look to adjust on the JX injection pump to suit the AAZ?
I have next to nothing in the way of information on the previous owner.

Sat May 28, 2016 7:59 pm

The crank bolt is single-use. Do not reuse it. Are you using the v-belt accessory drive system from the JX? If using the AAZ serp system, you should update the crank sprocket to the AHU D-style. If using the JX v-belts, you're ok using the earlier style JX/AAZ sprocket. You should use a crank holder when loosening/installing the crank sprocket bolt.

How did you hold the crank during removal of the bolt?

Sat May 28, 2016 8:47 pm

wrenchspinner wrote:
Is there anyone out there who has installed the 1.9 block with all the 1.6 turbo accessories?
I am running the K14 turbo on a 1.9NA (1Y) engine converted to turbo. I intentionally chose the K14 off of a 1.6TD because of my high altitude of 7,200 ft. I figured it would give me more air at lower RPM than the 1.9 K14. Not sure I was right but it has been running real good for city driving. If I was running the 1.9 K14 I would probably get more RPMs but I don’t do that much freeway driving and didn’t want to install an intercooler.

Sat May 28, 2016 10:32 pm

wrenchspinner wrote: Is there anyone out there who has installed the 1.9 block with all the 1.6 turbo accessories? the sparse information i have from the previous incarnation tells me the boost was rather anemic with the K14. but it looks like that turbo is better suited to a larger engine.
What should i look to adjust on the JX injection pump to suit the AAZ?
I have next to nothing in the way of information on the previous owner.

The intake ports line up but are a different shape. I would recommend getting a 1.9 intake manifold. I'm not sure how complete your AAZ is. Things that are AAZ specific include the pump bracket, vacuum pump, timing covers, valve cover, oil filter flange, turbo oil supply, turbo oil return.

Sat May 28, 2016 10:36 pm

Somewhat tangential to the topic, but how is the AAZ vacuum pump different than an earlier pump?

Sun May 29, 2016 7:15 am

It has a different gear and has a different bore where it mounts to the block.

Sun May 29, 2016 8:54 am

wrenchspinner wrote: outcaststudios wrote: it is westFalia. no 'ph' ;)
Well, a curse on those spell checkers! They never do any good on spells anyway. So much easier where a campers is referred to as a California.
I don't see anything on that thread you suggested that indicates he ever needed to remove the crankshaft timing cog.
The block is still in the chassis. I have a 1/2" breaker bar on the socket. I have been searching for a suitable length of pipe.
I have seen more than one crank end bolt where the crank spun clockwise and the bolt had left hand threads. Quite common in old British motorcycle designs. Had the thought the Germans might have done the same.

Id like to understand exactly how within the span of five minutes you read through a 77 page thread and were able to determine that there was no information about the timing cog in it?!777 pages! i posted my comment at 9:44 and you replied at 9:49.ahahah, yeah right!! there is no way you did that [-X [-X ](*,) why should we give you advice if youre not going to read what is given to you? andrew libby posted SO much helpful and valuable info in that thread especially, in regards to the issue you were having ,in fact he used the same two photos he posted here in the timing pump rebuild thread. i just dont understand.that's pretty annoying. in the future you will help yourself more by actually putting in teh time to read this site. read the ENTIRE thread ,dont rely on someone to 'curate ' it for you we arent your personal research assistants here!!

Sun May 29, 2016 9:33 am

I admit I skimmed the first few pages of that thread because that was all I had time for that day. Computer time and money are two things in very short supply on this project.
To answer a few of the questions I've seen here;
I locked the crank by putting wood blocks in two cylinders and putting the head on with four bolts. As the head is scrap, and the cylinders show enough blow by that i would never reuse the pistons, I saw no possible harm.
I only have the V belt system off the JX. No flat belt parts.
I have the AAZ valve cover, vacuum pump, and intermediate shaft pulley.
i was told the JX oil filter bracket bolts on.
the AAZ timing cover parts are on the way.
If I missed any other questions, sorry. Things are a bit hectic here.
Thanks for the information on the crankshaft bolt. That is definitely not mentioned in the copy of Bentley that came with the van.

Sun May 29, 2016 10:25 am

wrenchspinner wrote:
i was told the JX oil filter bracket bolts on.

Whoever told you that was mistaken but that's easy enough for you to confirm on your own. I'm just trying to give you the heads up.

Sun May 29, 2016 11:56 am

Where in CT are you located? I may be able to lend a hand.

Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:01 am

Andrew A. Libby wrote: wrenchspinner wrote:
i was told the JX oil filter bracket bolts on.

Whoever told you that was mistaken but that's easy enough for you to confirm on your own. I'm just trying to give you the heads up.

They certainly were. They told me they routinely put the old brackets on AAZ blocks.
Perhaps they drilled and tapped a new screw hole right where that oil gallery is, the one that lines up just right with the old gasket screw hole. (More likely he was thinking of an entirely different engine.)
The JX block is now out of the chassis. The AAZ block is out of the crate and on the engine stand.
...and dirt is getting into everything. I really don't like doing an engine build on a dirt road.
The JX block is quite the odd duck; The bores show very little sign of wear and no detectable ridge. But there are obvious signs of large amounts of blow by.
I did find a set of Elsbett Engineering nozzles in four spare fuel injectors. If I were to hazard a guess, I would say this engine was run on vegetable oil fuel and incompatible lubricating oil. That would do a good job of gumming up the rings.
No sign of problems inside the crank case. Everything there looks in good shape and near new condition. I was told the engine held very good oil pressure before the head blew.
Anyone out there have a use for what looks like a good JX short block?

Sat Jun 04, 2016 10:10 am

OK, another S.N.A.F.U.
The timing cog i had so much trouble getting of the JX will not fit the crank in the AAZ block.
The end of the JX block has a rather large notch to fit a key in the cog.
The AAZ block has a flat milled into the end of the crank, sort of a D shape.
So, anyone, what crank am i looking at? What gear and bolt do i need? (How much extra is this going to cost me?)
As usual on projects like this, money is being sucked out of my pockets far faster than i can put it in. Last i checked, i didn't even have any lint left.

Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:43 am

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=347373

Actually read this one, it might give you some insight to your crankshaft snout.