TheSamba.com :: View topic - Girl Here...First timer! Questions to ask a seller? Help!

Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:01 am

Hi, guys!

So, I'm not going to BS you...I don't know a whole lot about dune buggies (YET! lol). I used to race cars when I was 16, so I have *some* knowledge, but frankly, I'm still a girl that needs to know more! And, I'm blonde! HAH!

I've come to the realization that I haven't had a garage toy in YEARS, and that needs to change! So, I've fallen *in love* with the idea of owning a street legal sand rail. I found an ad on craigslist, and am thinking about going to check it out. I came here to show you some pictures, and ask you guys for some advice...

What questions should I ask the owner?

Here's some more details about it: 1973 VW Dune Buggy; has 1600CC 4 cylinder motor; 4 speed transmission.

Of course, this will be my first dune buggy, so I know she won't be everything I want. But, I think starting here and being able to build her to my liking will be a good learning process.

What do you guys think?

Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:52 am

Beware, it becomes an addiction.... Welcome to the Samba...

For street legal... Will it pass local "street legal" inspection (not all buggies will) for state you reside in.... What about insurance, is it insurable in state you reside in (will your insurance company cover it?) ... Does it have clear, "legal" title.... No clear title can be a nightmare

IF any of the above are NO answers, you may be buying a headache or trailer/garage queen...

If this deal does not work out for you maybe you might want to consider something like this...

Same thing goes for "kit" cars for titling and registration and insurance...

Dale

Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:34 am

Ask to verify title and VIN have matching numbers, then verify car is titled properly. In Pennsylvania, if you are looking at a sand rail and the title says "74 VW", you are looking at a world of problems. However, if the title says " Special Constructed Vehicle" AND the numbers match, you are probably not going to have problems.
Make the sale contingent on your DMV accepting the paperwork.

Mon Jun 06, 2016 12:03 pm

Does it run and can I test drive.

Besides all that I think a few better questions might help. Can you wrnch, weld and otherwise work on a car? Beyond just changing the oil. If not is there a VW repair shop near you? Vw are good but they do take a little TLC to keep going.
How is the bank account to keep things running.
What state are you in and what are the state regulations of a "kit" car?
Just because the sell says street legal does not mean the State says so.
Like Axiltec said call you insurance company and see what they say.
In Pa we had to add centers, windshield ect to get them street legal.

If all that is OK are you ready for a lot of fun. Do not be in a hurry to get the first rail you see.

DWP

Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:28 pm

Dale M. wrote: Beware, it becomes an addiction.... Welcome to the Samba...

For street legal... Will it pass local "street legal" inspection (not all buggies will) for state you reside in.... What about insurance, is it insurable in state you reside in (will your insurance company cover it?) ... Does it have clear, "legal" title.... No clear title can be a nightmare

IF any of the above are NO answers, you may be buying a headache or trailer/garage queen...

If this deal does not work out for you maybe you might want to consider something like this...

Same thing goes for "kit" cars for titling and registration and insurance...

Dale

Hi, Dale! Thank you for the welcome! :)

Great comments! I definitely get wary about the street legal aspect of it, for the exact reason you listed. I don't want to buy something that won't pass for use on the street, and only be able to keep her in the garage. It seems that states don't really advertise that information freely. I've read a lot of posts where other owners kinda learn from experience/other people.

YES, questions about insurance are very important to me, as I wouldn't want to get something that I can't insure. All great recommendations for questions! Thank you!

While I like the "beach buggy" style, my heart beats for the rail. With the fiberglass types, it probably wouldn't make it if I took it to the badlands.

You know what's sad though? I ended up finding some time to call the seller, and he had already sold it! :( So, now I have to find a new baby to take in!

Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:29 pm

Axitech wrote: Ask to verify title and VIN have matching numbers, then verify car is titled properly. In Pennsylvania, if you are looking at a sand rail and the title says "74 VW", you are looking at a world of problems. However, if the title says " Special Constructed Vehicle" AND the numbers match, you are probably not going to have problems.
Make the sale contingent on your DMV accepting the paperwork.

Hi, Axitech!

Yes, from what I understand...that is similar to Illinois laws. I've heard that you'll have "hell" if the title is incorrectly listed as a VW.

That is a GREAT IDEA about making a term on the sale. Awesome! I like this forum a lot already! :)

Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:35 pm

DWP wrote: Does it run and can I test drive.

Besides all that I think a few better questions might help. Can you wrnch, weld and otherwise work on a car? Beyond just changing the oil. If not is there a VW repair shop near you? Vw are good but they do take a little TLC to keep going.
How is the bank account to keep things running.
What state are you in and what are the state regulations of a "kit" car?
Just because the sell says street legal does not mean the State says so.
Like Axiltec said call you insurance company and see what they say.
In Pa we had to add centers, windshield ect to get them street legal.

If all that is OK are you ready for a lot of fun. Do not be in a hurry to get the first rail you see.

DWP

Hi, DWP.

ALL GREAT QUESTIONS! Thank you!

And, I especially like the advice about not being in a hurry to buy the first rail I see. That really helped me put things into perspective today, especially when I called the seller of the rail I posted pictures of in my original post, and found out he had already sold it! Patience is definitely important.

Last Fall, my fiance purchased a 1st gen dodge cummins. We were so blinded by its prestige, that we really overlooked a lot (which isn't common for us). That thing was a nightmare from the minute it was parked in our garage. I've never seen a vehicle with that bad of an electrical cluster F&%@!

Thanks again for the advice! I really appreciate it!

Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:08 pm

To bad you missed the buy..But grandma always said, if you did not get it, it was not for you... Keep looking..

Dale

Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:47 am

... Going through the same thing. I just bought a "street legal" rail in Indiana last week. Mine does have an "assembled" Dune buggy title so I'm off to a good start... I think, lol.

I looked for a couple of months and there seemed to always be one to look at, but from the way they were advertised to what I found in person was all over the place. Good luck.

... As a start, you will typically need windshield, wiper, horn, brakes (with parking brake) headlights (proper height), etc... Varies by state, but I would personally find one that already has a title as mentioned above.

I'm early into it, good luck with yours!

Tue Jun 07, 2016 11:29 am

Dale M. wrote: To bad you missed the buy..But grandma always said, if you did not get it, it was not for you... Keep looking..

Dale

Your grandma is a smart lady! :)

Tue Jun 07, 2016 11:32 am

9068SR wrote: ... Going through the same thing. I just bought a "street legal" rail in Indiana last week. Mine does have an "assembled" Dune buggy title so I'm off to a good start... I think, lol.

I looked for a couple of months and there seemed to always be one to look at, but from the way they were advertised to what I found in person was all over the place. Good luck.

... As a start, you will typically need windshield, wiper, horn, brakes (with parking brake) headlights (proper height), etc... Varies by state, but I would personally find one that already has a title as mentioned above.

I'm early into it, good luck with yours!

YES! There seems to be such a huge variety with the rails. I just found a few that popped up on Craigs since yesterday, but some look like they are so tiny and others look longer (more leg room) etc. Congrats on your new purchase! I hope you post some pictures! I'd be excited to see yours!

Ya, I think you're right about finding one with the correct title. :)

Wed Jun 08, 2016 6:49 am

How cool are you with a little drive? There are quite a few in St. Louis and a few more popped up recently on Mr. Craig's List. Two of them in particular look well put together and are titled. I'm always prowling for parts so I stumble on them all the time.

I have a very sketchy constant-project Street Legal rail with a correct custom vehicle title, and what I will say is that it's good that you know in general how to fix stuff. If you don't enjoy tinkering, VW hobbies aren't for you.

Search "buggy" "sand rail" and "rail car" on St. Louis Craigslist and there are quite a few. There is quite a variety, apparently our area used to have quite a bit of short-course dirt racing and general buggy activity. Several local companies in the 70's and 80's made quite a number of frames, one of which I have. I have personally met several of the guys that owned the VW shops in my area a few decades back and the history is really cool.

Here's mine! I bet this is pretty much what you're after, plus or minus a little paint work. :shock:

Last and MOST IMPORTANT: The person who gave the best advice in this thread is you, to yourself.

StevieJo wrote:
While I like the "beach buggy" style, my heart beats for the rail. With the fiberglass types, it probably wouldn't make it if I took it to the badlands.

This is a luxury item, you want it because you want it. Don't buy something that is a compromise when you just have to wait a little longer or drive a little further or pay an extra hundred to get the "one." This may be the only thing quite exactly like this you'll ever own in your life, don't screw it up or short change yourself. :D

Wed Jun 08, 2016 8:37 pm

jimmyhoffa wrote: How cool are you with a little drive? There are quite a few in St. Louis and a few more popped up recently on Mr. Craig's List. Two of them in particular look well put together and are titled. I'm always prowling for parts so I stumble on them all the time.

I have a very sketchy constant-project Street Legal rail with a correct custom vehicle title, and what I will say is that it's good that you know in general how to fix stuff. If you don't enjoy tinkering, VW hobbies aren't for you.

Search "buggy" "sand rail" and "rail car" on St. Louis Craigslist and there are quite a few. There is quite a variety, apparently our area used to have quite a bit of short-course dirt racing and general buggy activity. Several local companies in the 70's and 80's made quite a number of frames, one of which I have. I have personally met several of the guys that owned the VW shops in my area a few decades back and the history is really cool.

Here's mine! I bet this is pretty much what you're after, plus or minus a little paint work. :shock:

Last and MOST IMPORTANT: The person who gave the best advice in this thread is you, to yourself.

StevieJo wrote:
While I like the "beach buggy" style, my heart beats for the rail. With the fiberglass types, it probably wouldn't make it if I took it to the badlands.

This is a luxury item, you want it because you want it. Don't buy something that is a compromise when you just have to wait a little longer or drive a little further or pay an extra hundred to get the "one." This may be the only thing quite exactly like this you'll ever own in your life, don't screw it up or short change yourself. :D

WOW! This post just REALLY made my night! :) I loved all of your advice and you gave some good information! I'm totally down with driving to STL to look at some rails. Now, I'll be up all night doing that! Lol! :)

And you nailed it, exactly what you have is what I want! It's beautiful! You've done a great job! :) I want to see more pictures!!

Man! I really like this forum out of all of the ones I've browsed. You guys have been so welcoming and I can't wait to show you all what I end up getting. :)

Wed Jun 08, 2016 8:39 pm

**meaning I'll be up all night stalking Craigslist, not up all night driving to St. Louis! LOL. STL is only about 2.5 hours from me. :P

Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:20 pm

Where I come from, a street legal rail needs to look something like this:

So in addition to the legal requirements (title, inspection, smog, insurance) you need to determine what you want in a vehicle.

Visit forums like this, go to shows and off road events. Talk to builders if you can.

Learn what quality components are part of a build and what works and what doesn't for the application you have chosen.

And most importantly, don't be in a rush and budget accordingly.

My thoughts.

Thu Jun 09, 2016 4:55 am

Does it have to have a built in shade tent to be legal? :lol: Mine doesn't, and I don't want to tangle with the law.... I should install a tent.

StevieJo, I have many more pictures but I shant clutter up the thread; more important is you finding what you need. (also, out of respect for the effort all the forum administrators put in, I won't link to That One Other Site, which is where my build thread is.)

But, here's this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boPA1NCeJ-w

Check the "Transmissions for Dummies" sticky at the top of this HamBurger Brad offroad forum. All of the transmissions that fit in a buggy work, but some are stronger and some are geared better and some are both of those.

As for engines, there are too many variations to explain concisely, so the goal should probably be a simple engine that looks clean and doesn't have a mess of disconnected electrical junk or hoses that go to nothing hanging around. The more receipts/build sheet papers the better of course, but that is rare.

Thu Jun 09, 2016 3:33 pm

Save all the paperwork. the ns co for the drunk that hit and left me shit when I sent her 88 pages of receipts that added up over 10 k so they could throw a 4.5k settlement offer. Don't buy anything that is hacked up. I think the streets are more dangerous than the trails, those mfers are crazy. More classifieds to peruse- shoptalk forums, some pretty bitchin builds going on; woodsbuggy.com, almost shriveled up and dead; lot of people on dune buggy junkeze facebook page.

Thu Jun 09, 2016 4:36 pm

If you live in ca, move ! I am trying to get mine registered for street, still needs bumpers and a brake and light check which is expensive in ca. Good luck on your hunt.

Thu Jun 09, 2016 6:27 pm

The inspection process was pretty straightforward here but having said that I cut no corners and had access to the manual that the gov't certified inspectors use. The licensing branch offered it up. The buggy has it's own class and the inspector riveted the VIN plate to the dash once approved. I do carry the paperwork for any uninformed Mounties. So far so good.

The tarp is standard kit here in the rain forest. Works well in hot days too like the day the pic was taken at the GCVW show in Aug. 2011. It was a very good day. First in class.

Here's a pic sans tarp:

Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:40 am

Just a comment - posting the state that you live in in your signature or something would be helpful. I am guessing you are in MO since you are talking about St Louis? There is a Mansfield PA and I have a sneaking suspicion there are a couple other ones.

I have a buddy who is going through this right now on a street legal rail project in PA. And I am understanding that PA is one of the more challenging states for things like this. He has a LOT of hoops he needs to jump through since he is building the car and there is a list of requirements. Like because of the age and style, he cant call it a street rod, he DOES need to use fenders. - bunch of stuff. Good luck.