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Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:43 pm

My friend has a '77 Riviera that I recently diagnosed to have at least two burn exhaust valves, via compression/leak-down tests. I wanted to convert it to a Jetta 1.8 with Digifant II, but she didn't have the funds, so we're now exploring the option of installing an AC 2.0L from another friend's '80 Vanagon. I searched, but couldn't find any definitive lists of potential challenges to this kind of engine swap. I know heat exchangers are different due to the square v. oval ports, and that the fan shrouds/engine tin aren't alike among many other little issues.

Backstory:

Her current engine has a Weber progressive and has never run correctly. Additionally, it no longer has the stock electric heater fan or any of the engine compartment heater ductwork.

Goals:

I would like to run as much of the Vanagon fuel management as possible ('cause I just prefer fuel injection), as well as the alternator squirrel cage heater fan, so that she can finally have a functioning heater again.

Questions:

1.) Can the Vanagon heater boxes be combined with the Bay fan shroud/engine tin?

2.) Can the Vanagon fan shroud/alternator be used with the Bay engine tin?

3.) Any other hidden gotchas?

I have fabrication equipment like MIG/TIG, Oxy/Ace, grinders, etc., so modifying the engine mounting bar and whatnot aren't an issue

Thanks

Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:55 pm

I don't KNOW for sure what all is entailed in the swap.

But if you have a couple burned valves, and you're going to have the engine out already, why not just get the heads rebuilt? I got my heads re-done locally for just a hair over $200.

Look at the Vanagon 2.0 and it's heater boxes, look at the 77's tin and stuff.

Idk how different the vanagon heater boxes are and stuff, but you could probably figures something out if you had them side-by-side.

I'm not a purist or anything, shit if I had to I'd slap a 2.0 outta whatever ACVW in a pinch. But locating a used complete 77 FI setup and getting the heads done seems a lot simpler than trying to figure out the best way to swap everything over.

Mon Jun 20, 2016 4:10 pm

Put the vanagon heads and FI on the riveria. Send them off to have the valves re-ground would be my suggestion.

Vanagon heaterboxes won't work with the bay set up.

Mon Jun 20, 2016 4:16 pm

If I were to use the Vanagon heads, then I'd need to locate a couple of '79 Bay heaterboxes...which seems kinda rare. I'm trying to do the swap with minimal outlay of funds for anything other than gaskets, fuel lines and the other usual replacement parts.

Mon Jun 20, 2016 4:50 pm

To make room for that Vanagon alternator with the heat blower on it so you can use the Vanagon HE's you'll have to butcher out the RR corner of the engine compartment surround metal. The Vanagon engine compartment is shaped very differently.

Mon Jun 20, 2016 5:24 pm

sell the Vanagon motor for $1800 if it runs well, and use that to buy a set of heads from HAM - pocket the rest. Your swap is going to be more of a PITA than you realize. If this is all about flipping it then do this (link below) and be done with it but don't get high and mighty that the bus has quality heads which it won't. It will have heads that last for however long they do. Also, the vanagon motor is a later year. You are creating an issue for the next person if they end up in a smog state. They will have to smog as a later year vanagon.

http://www.busdepot.com/022101061lx

Mon Jun 20, 2016 5:51 pm

No flipping involved. She loves this van. I find it hard to believe no one has done this swap, since AC Vanagons are still pretty cheap, and more plentiful in lower mileages than Bays.

I might still just pop the heads off of her engine and rebuild them, but I don't trust the bottom end at this point. When she first brought it to me, the engine was running really really rich, there was no engine compartment seal, and none of the heater tubes were present, so all those holes in the tin were drawing in already heated air. It's broken down on her way too many times, so I want to fix it for good this time. I built up the basket case engine in my old '80 Vanagon Westfalia that was given to me for free, and it lasted for years and years with no problems whatsoever. I don't see why that can't happen again.

Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:23 pm

It's been done.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/search.php?search..._chars=200

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/search.php?search..._chars=200

Good luck
Tcash

Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:31 pm

Thanks!

Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:31 pm

it is the same engine except the Vanagon is designed to run with more restrictive smog laws. I have a friend whose AC Westphalia burned up 3 motors when new under warranty in the early 80's, and he drives like a 90 year old man, slow. What is the engine code on the engine in it now?

Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:36 pm

There are no smog requirements in this part of Cascadia. I'm not sure of the engine that's in the van, as it's not here right now. It seemed to be a mongrel mish-mash of various Type 4 engine components. The 009 distributor also had a stiff advance mechanism, so I suspect that led to the richness issues. Like I said, this swap will hopefully bring fuel injection and heat back to the van, hence the interest in the unorthodox solution.

Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:49 pm

So, I'm checking out the donor engine tomorrow. Since I'm going to be restoring L-jet to a van that hasn't had it in a while, I want to be sure I'm grabbing as much of the fiddly bits as needed to successfully install a reliable fuel system. I've been involved in a conversion of a WBX Vanagon w/Digifant to an I4 1.8L w/Digifant 2, and that really only required about five wires to plug the new engine harness into the old chassis harness. Is there a good online wiring diagram for the Bays? I have the Bentley for the Vanagons, and can assume the 49 state federal harness is mostly the same for the T2 and T3, but it would be nice to see what VAG has to say about it.

Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:46 am

the oil filler is different. as is the dipstick tube.

Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:56 am

Aircooled Vanagons are notoriously sick pigs that die far more quickly than any others.

The closed-loop smog systems ran way too lean, which fried the heads.
The Vanagon was heavier, geared tall, less aerodynamic, and could be piled with more heavy crap, and that also fried the heads.
(fries the whole motor most of the time, actually)

Unless that Vanagon was a low-mileage cherry original that died for other reasons,
I'd be willing to bet it's toast.

Going through pains to install it, including hacking up the bus, all to save a few bucks, only to have it be fried, would be a fool's game IMHO.

Take it apart to check it out First before wasting any time with it.

Sun Jul 03, 2016 8:53 pm

That's complete bullshit, but whatevs...^^^

Anyhoo, to close out this thread, I stripped down the prospective donor and found that it had dropped an exhaust seat and had excessive wear on the cam lobes. Not a suitable donor from an obviously poorly maintained rig. I will now go back to plan A and try to find a nice ABA from a Mk3 Jetta. A bulletproof engine with plenty of heat and power

Sun Jul 03, 2016 9:27 pm

Just in case someone else stumbles along to this thread...

I have a Vanagon motor in my '73. I installed all the '73 tin onto the Vanagon motor, along with the fan shroud and that stuff and '73 mounting bar. I used the '79 heat exchangers as suggested and the '73 muffler.

I got lucky with a good deal on the motor on Craigslist. It had sat a while and was out of the van, but I could feel it had compression on all 4 cylinders when I bought it.

I originally got it going with a weber progressive carb, but eventually swapped over to fuel injection.

Here is a thread I referenced for the conversion:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=275571

See my '73 thread below for details on the FI.

Sun Jul 03, 2016 9:29 pm

Oh, and please post a thread as you work on the 1.8 conversion! That is something I once considered for the '73.

Whenever the current motor wears out, I will probably take a long, hard look at a watercooled swap in it. Hopefully it'll last at least long enough for me to work every single bug out of the conversion on the '78 so I can just put it together.

Sun Jul 03, 2016 9:37 pm

Thank you for your proper use of the apostrophe.
Your Grammar Curmudgeon,
Tomwesty 8)

Sat Dec 24, 2016 11:14 am

what makes 1979 2.0 heat exchangers year specific ive seen adds that list 1979 only ?

Sat Dec 24, 2016 11:41 am

altamo30 wrote: what makes 1979 2.0 heat exchangers year specific ive seen adds that list 1979 only ?
Square exhaust flanges and bus heat plumbing, vanagon HE's fit the engine but the heat pipes don't line up with any part of the bus system.