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Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:13 pm

Wondering if this is a good idea, bad idea or snake oil. Like a lot of us I experience a no start condition when engine is hot and sat for about 10-15 minutes before restarting. Once cool, always restarts. Let me be clear the engine cranks just fine but does not fire. I have added every relay doo dad, cleaned grounds, plugs, wires, coil etc... I have even changed my fuel pump relay. This situation is getting frustrating and it is always caused by something getting heat soaked. I believe the relay box possibly. So, I am wondering if it would be worth the try to insulate the outside of that relay box with reflectix and see if that gives it a fighting chance to not get heat soaked while fueling or running quick errands etc... Any issues that could be caused by doing this?
Thoughts on this idea?

As a side note, if you dont have anything positive to add to this topic, please refrain from posting. The samba is turning into the worst high sky scene on the planet

Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:23 pm

What you could try as a test to see if they are getting too hot is move them out of the engine compartment. You can add extensions to the wires to reach anywhere. You might get complaints about them taking up too much room in the fridge, but it's only a test. :D

Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:28 pm

Steve M. wrote: What you could try as a test to see if they are getting too hot is move them out of the engine compartment. You can add extensions to the wires to reach anywhere. You might get complaints about them taking up too much room in the fridge, but it's only a test. :D

Thats a good idea, plenty of room to do it under the bench seat

Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:29 pm

I think given the relative cost of reflectix, you should go for it.

And as Steve pointed out, you could move it, wouldn't have to move it far.

Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:36 pm

I guess one of my concerns would that after a long drive the relay box would be well heated and the insulation would actually have a negative effect by not allowing it to cool down by holding heat in

Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:48 pm

you added Jay's relay kit? or what?

did you locate each ground and take them completely apart? how did you clean and treat them?

did you replace the big fat cable? or add to it with the VC aux cable or what?

"every relay doodad" & "cleaned gnds" isnt' specific enough to tell if you've really solved problems with known fixes

Wed Jun 29, 2016 3:08 pm

He's saying 'the engine cranks just fine but does not fire' so Jay's kit is not really going to help.

I, too, have experienced a fuel pump relay that failed in high heat only to recover after cooling down - but was able to resolve the problem with a new relay.

I like the notion of relocating the relay as a test -- even moving it to more open air behind the tail light might be enough.

Isn't this why VW moved the ECU from the engine bay (like my 84) to under the seat (later models)?

Wed Jun 29, 2016 3:28 pm

Merian wrote: you added Jay's relay kit? or what?

did you locate each ground and take them completely apart? how did you clean and treat them?

did you replace the big fat cable? or add to it with the VC aux cable or what?

"every relay doodad" & "cleaned gnds" isnt' specific enough to tell if you've really solved problems with known fixes

Hot start kit is no help in this case. Yes, to all the above, I have exhausted every known "fix" for this situation to no avail. Which is why I am thinking out of the box here. I will relocate this box and drive a while in this heat and report back any noticeable improvements or same issues

Thu Jun 30, 2016 8:17 am

Sound like an intermittent hall sender to me.

Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:04 am

I think you should try to determine if it is no fuel or a no spark condition when it won't start. Plenty of these vans running around without any special consideration for the power relay box. Once you know which is missing, you can then try to isolate the problem. It's symptom now might be an indication of something on its way out that could leave you stranded on the road at some point.

Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:41 am

Ahwahnee wrote:

I, too, have experienced a fuel pump relay that failed in high heat only to recover after cooling down - but was able to resolve the problem with a new relay.

That also is not a bad idea, Relays get old just like anything else. I might go for that before trying the move. It was working for the 1st 30 years so maybe it's time has come.

Thu Jun 30, 2016 12:08 pm

you could cover the box with the aluminum tape to make it reflective of heat, but you probably wont get a huge temperature decrease. most folks don't have this problem so the solution might be to replace the relay that is failing on you, it may be defective and is thus more sensitive to failure in heat. that would be what I'd try first.

frankly I changed my relays a while ago, and added relay for the spark coil made a separate one for the ecu etc... I found my key switch had a pretty sizable voltage drop for the spark coil, relay solved this issue.

good luck

Thu Jun 30, 2016 12:38 pm

maybe this is just crazy-talk, but i would suggest figuring out WHY you have a hot start problem before you try to "fix" it.

ALL driveability diagnostics start with a fuel pressure gauge :wink:

Thu Jun 30, 2016 4:03 pm

Check you ignition switch, a known high electric volume thus heat prone item.

Fast, easy, cheap. Rarely do you get all three in one shot!

Dave

Thu Jun 30, 2016 4:33 pm

My Westy had the same symptoms.
Note, my fuel pump relay was already under the back seat,
so heat soaked relay wasn't the issue.

Fixed it. Now starts without fail when really Hot.

Here's the thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=657677

Fri Jul 01, 2016 1:49 pm

Just a quick update, i insulated the box since I was too lazy to reroute it out of the engine area. Just wrapped some reflectix around the box with zip ties. Been driving around in over 90 degree heat last few days and no issues with restarting (knock on wood). As a side note the relays in the box have been replaced prior to this experiment and conditions still evident. Too soon to tell if this has made a difference but so far so good

Fri Jul 01, 2016 2:04 pm

candyman wrote: Just a quick update, i insulated the box since I was too lazy to reroute it out of the engine area. Just wrapped some reflectix around the box with zip ties. Been driving around in over 90 degree heat last few days and no issues with restarting (knock on wood). As a side note the relays in the box have been replaced prior to this experiment and conditions still evident. Too soon to tell if this has made a difference but so far so good

I can attest that it's been brutally hot out the last couple days... So if it's been holding up that's a good sign, esp if you've been putting her through some paces in this business. 8)

Hope it keeps on working and resolves the problem!

***also pretty sure I passed you the other day, honked and waved but you were locked straight ahead... I was driving what looks like a handicapped el camino with a topper. (82' Dodge Rampage, Yellow.)