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Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:58 pm

I just finished building my first engine. I wrote a bit about it here: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=644737&start=80

Details: 1776cc with 044 heads, dual Weber 40IDF, Flanged heater boxes.
Current exhaust: Tri-Mil Hot Dog

Here's my dilemma. When I decided to rebuild my engine I got a little over eager and bumped it up to a 1776 with dual carbs. Since it was my first rebuild I probably should have simply overhauled the engine and kept the stock exhaust. I didn't want a loud, raucous engine for this car. But I did want a few more ponies and a little more throaty rumble than stock would have been okay. I now feel like I'm driving a hot rod VW. Not necessarily a bad thing, but it's not what I want in this car. Most people think a Harley is coming down the road. That's not what I had in mind.

After reading many pages of posts to get a feel for what exhaust to go with, I decided the Tri-Mil Hot Dog would offer what I wanted. I was wrong. It's too loud. I measured the decibels in the cabin, windows up, accelerating at a moderate throttle in 3rd gear and it was 98 db. Needless to say, when I get on it a little, especially in lower gears, its awful. Droning and harsh, not the mellow rumble of a more stock setup. I can't speak to a passenger without yelling at any rpm.

So having little experience and not many VW folks in my area, I can't go to a meet up and hear different mufflers. So anything I buy is simply a test, and trying a couple three systems can be quite expensive. Not like you can return a muffler, so I'm faced with going on people's descriptions, which is not easy. Everyone's opinion is subjective.

I originally wanted pea shooters, which is why I bought the Tri-Mil. Having flanged heater boxes makes it tricky too. Having to weld up flanges on a header gets expensive. And you loose ceramic coatings too. I've considered the A-1 sidewinder header and muffler, but read a few posts saying even that system had lots of drone. I've also heard the Vintage Speed units are louder than the Tri-Mil. I'm not averse to spending some money on a system, but throwing money away trying a bunch of systems is not something I'm looking forward to.

I also don't like the look of the headers that curve way out under the bumper, or have the muffler hanging out the back far. If I can't have pea shooters, I don't want to see the muffler or header easily.

An impossible set of parameters? Perhaps. What I'm really looking for are some hard numbers on the loudness of different systems, maybe a magazine article or some tests someone has done.

For what its worth, here's a video of my engine. Sounds pretty good, right? If only it wasn't deafening inside the cab!

Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:10 pm

That is pretty darn nice like it is! What is the deal it sounds louder now than it does in your "First Start" Video on your link? Did someone remove the baffles?

Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:16 pm

I was holding my phone closer to the pipes here.

Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:25 pm

Vintage Speed has U-tube's of their exhaust both outside and in the cab. They sound very livable...

Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:35 pm

Csp super comp. Not fond of the vs. Too thin material and too loud.

Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:52 pm

That flanged set-up is part of the whole design of the engine combination. The 044 heads probably have large valve sizes at least 40mm on the intakes and 35.5 on the exhaust and the heater boxes match so the flanged set-up needs to stay. But you may be able to just find a quiet muffler but probably would require welding and it's not going to look as nice. Did you check your choices with the flanged headers first? This may sound nicer but it will also be pretty loud: http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Flanged-Pro-Flow-Street-System-CB3644-p/cb3644.htm

Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:00 pm

my 2028 just has a good muffler on it's merged header and it's pretty quiet. 3 chambered 2" in&out. there alre lotsa quiet mufflers out there. most guyd put way too big of muffler on them(pipe size) or loud mufflers. what you need I dont have a clue.visit some perfoprmance muffler shops , you might fine a new oe take off from a v6 that will do what you want and there stainless nowadays.

Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:13 pm

A-1 has a killer setup that exits the apron pea shooter style...that being said, do the least expensive mods first...get some sound deadening for the rear...dynamat, hushmat, etc.

Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:19 pm

Danwvw wrote: That flanged set-up is part of the whole design of the engine combination. The 044 heads probably have large valve sizes at least 40mm on the intakes and 35.5 on the exhaust and the heater boxes match so the flanged set-up needs to stay. But you may be able to just find a quiet muffler but probably would require welding and it's not going to look as nice. Did you check your choices with the flanged headers first? This may sound nicer but it will also be pretty loud: http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Flanged-Pro-Flow-Street-System-CB3644-p/cb3644.htm

I did look into that setup early on, but ruled it out because I don't want that giant U bend sticking out way past my bumper. Head do have 40x35.5 valves.

So say I go with the A-1 sidewinder header, what should guide my muffler choice? I'm so new to this that I guess I don't even have to use a "VW" muffler, correct? Eh, frustrating being a greenhorn.

Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:20 pm

MConstable wrote: A-1 has a killer setup that exits the apron pea shooter style...that being said, do the least expensive mods first...get some sound deadening for the rear...dynamat, hushmat, etc.

Really? That bolts to heater boxes? Because I couldn't find one like that from A-1

Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:21 pm

mark tucker wrote: my 2028 just has a good muffler on it's merged header and it's pretty quiet. 3 chambered 2" in&out. there alre lotsa quiet mufflers out there. most guyd put way too big of muffler on them(pipe size) or loud mufflers. what you need I dont have a clue.visit some perfoprmance muffler shops , you might fine a new oe take off from a v6 that will do what you want and there stainless nowadays.

So it doesn't have to be a "VW" muffler, correct? Sorta new to all this, pardon the perhaps idiotic question.

Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:29 pm

Abouna wrote:
I don't want that giant U bend sticking out way past my bumper.
I Like it, Sign of performance.

Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:45 pm

The quietest system I've ever had was the one that's currently on my 1776. It's called a hideaway exhaust, as is NLA, if I'm not mistaken. BugPack made them, and they went out of business. There are still plenty of them available in the classifieds every now and then. The U bend is pretty much flush with the apron too.

Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:06 pm

The Hideaway's are ok, Until you need to access the valve cover behind them. They kind of leave he back end of the car looking like it's missing something. They point at the ground and kick up a lot of dust sometimes.

Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:09 pm

Like I wrote earlier, CSP super comp. Geat fit, tucked away, quietest of the lot recomended AND exits out of the stock positions in the apron. Also, it does not bring resonance into the cabin as almost all other performance mufflers do. http://www.csp-shop.com/cgi-bin/cshop2/front/shop_...0&all= good for a solid 130 hp engine and up to just under 150 if you know what youre doing. Valve train service is a 10 minute preparation. Yank 2 rubber stabilizers off, loosen 2 clamps and the mufflers lowers so you have full acces to the valves.
Yes its a little pricey for the US guys, but I think you can order it through Pieside if you do not want to order directly.

T

Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:41 pm

If the U-bend points to the ground, you're using the header for the quiet pack. The U-bend is supposed to be only about an inch from touching the apron.

Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:20 pm

Sometimes we cant find all the things we want in a Exhaust system. Or, we find basically what we want but it costs $600-$800.

Alstrup has the best exhaust given what you want, quiet, performance, and exiting in stock location. To me I would have to have the stainless, cause I cant pay $600 for a bare metal exhaust that will turn to crap, so I would go for the stainless, but for $850 its back to thinking this is a rich mans hobby.

If you can build your own engine, you can put together a exhaust that does all you want it to do. Get the header you want, and the muffler you want, and between the two you can have EXACTLY what you want.

If you want to see how to put together a custom stainless system with only a wire feed flux core welder on a budget, I did a little how to:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=641441&highlight=

Also, I don't care for the big huge "U" sticking out like on the standard "hi-performance exhausts". I avoided that, avoided blocking the valve covers, used stainless, and on a budget.

Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:56 pm

A1 sidewinder is very loud inside unless you have it built with a 2 inch exit pipe that exits out the back not pointed at the ground.. Ask me how I know?

Also.. Even with a quiet exhaust your dual carbs will still bring a ton of noise in the cabin.

Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:08 pm

Abouna wrote: MConstable wrote: A-1 has a killer setup that exits the apron pea shooter style...that being said, do the least expensive mods first...get some sound deadening for the rear...dynamat, hushmat, etc.

Really? That bolts to heater boxes? Because I couldn't find one like that from A-1

You're correct, no heater boxes with that, I apologize for the misinformation.
That CSP that Alstrup posted is badass...also, like Alstrup touched on, a lot of the cabin noise can be attributed to resonance and vibration, it's called "drone" so I would seriously consider sound deadening first

Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:25 pm

I've got 3 bugs. One stock, one 2275 with A1 sidewinder, one with a similar setup to yours. 2056, cb44 heads, hot dog muffler and dual 40 carbs. I will tell you sidewinder is by far the loudest in car. In my opinion the main difference between stock and hot dog car is carb noise. Mine is not bad inside, but it also has sound deadner. Take this for what it's worth.