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Mon Mar 22, 2004 9:52 am

Big into type 1's but I have a sickness of restoring them to a point where I no longer daily drive them. Sunny days and dry roads only.

I've been looking for an early squareback for a driver and last week my search paid off when I guy called me with one for sale. It's a 1963 1500s Variant. Beautiful 1 owner, original paint, original interior, original motor car.

He claims to have had the motor rebuilt but doesn't have any receipts for machine work, parts, etc. Since the motor is "new" he wants $3000 for the motor alone and only $1200 for just the car with a 1500cc parts motor which is complete according to him. My problem is I wouldn't know a complete motor if I fell over it. Take off the cooling tin and I can rebuild a 1500cc motor with my eyes closed.

Should I pony up the $3000 and get the "rebuilt" motor which is original to the car? Am I devaluing the car substantially enough by not keeping the original motor. Am I going to have a hard time getting pieces for the parts motor if I rebuild it?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 10:18 am

There is '63 1500 S model, S models started with the '64 model year (built in '63 though so...)

Yes, it is better to have the original numbers matching engine. Does he have proof it's the original? $1500 is a lot for an engine without proof it was rebuilt professionally.

It seems strange to me that an original owner would have a parts engine, etc..

The 1500 engines are the same as a Beetle 1500 (bascially), although you may have finding the correct early engine tin, etc..

Any pictures? I'm into 61-63 Squarebacks.

If you decide to pass on the car, I'm interested!

Mon Mar 22, 2004 10:37 am

He wants $3000 for the motor and $1500 for the car!!!

Any resources you know of for checking engine #'s against the VIN?

I don't see myself passing on the car. I've seen a lot of car's in my searches, mostly type 1, but I've never come across a car as original as this one. The interior is spotless!! Original striped vinyl seat covers are perfect, headliner, mats, door panels, etc, all beautiful. The original carboard liner under the hood is very nice and still clean. Factory pop outs in the back seat are complete and working well, nice chrome no pitting.

The other thing I'm confused about is the colour. It's savanah beige which I didn't think was available until 64/65.

The car is being delivered tomorrow so I'll definately be posting some proud father pictures.

Mon Mar 22, 2004 12:31 pm

Just my opinion:

An all original, great condition, unmolested 63 for $1200.
Then a rebuilt motor for $3K.

That's hella lot for a stock motor. But damn cheap for the car, if it is as you described.

For that kind of money, I'd expect an ALL NEW motor. And you won't be able to tell from looking at it.

Mon Mar 22, 2004 1:14 pm

That's kinda what I was thinking, Air cooled head. He claims the parts motor to be complete and running so I figure worst case scenario, I have to do p&c's, heads, carbs. I'm still way ahead of $3000. The only down side is the matching numbers.

Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:37 pm

Envious wrote: He wants $3000 for the motor and $1500 for the car!!!
Oh crap, that is CRAZY. Jump on the car, forget the engine. After you get the car, tell him you'd like to get the engine later, if the price is reasonable.

Envious wrote: Any resources you know of for checking engine #'s against the VIN?
You can get a good guess if it's close by looking at:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/serialnumberst3.php

Sounds like a '64 to me... still cool.

Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:00 pm

Thanks for the info Ev. I called the guy for the VIN and it starts with 0044 so that puts in around April 62 according to that chart which doesn't explain the colour but falls in line with the he said it was.

As far as the motor goes, he just wants a 1500 single port pancake motor so I might see if he'll leave the rebuilt motor in the car and I'll offer to have his parts car motor rebuilt for him. Maybe he'll bite. I'd like to keep the original motor for the car but I'm not willing to pay a mint for it.

Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:30 pm

If the VIN # is really 0 044 XXX then it is one of the earliest Squarebacks around and also a '62.

62s did not come in Safari Beige.

If it's a '62, it should have a black & white checkered interior like my '63:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/scrapbook/63variant/
That was the only interior option and your whole interior should look identical to mine.

The original engine should be a single carbureted engine.

Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:36 pm

Something's strange then. The car's going to be here tomorrow so I can check the VIN myself on the chasis. Maybe the ownership is from another car.

The interior is striped brown/beige vinyl on the seats with tan back and sides.

I'll post some pics tomorrow. Thanks for all the info. As I mentioned earlier I'm new to this type 3 stuff. You can't get much from reading books.

Mon Mar 22, 2004 7:37 pm

Envious wrote: The interior is striped brown/beige vinyl on the seats with tan back and sides.
Sounds like a '64-'65 - they had the striped seats.

Wed Mar 24, 2004 9:33 pm

So, Ev was right and VIN proves to be a 64 in Nutria L575. Bought the car and walked away from the motor.

Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:15 am

$1200? Nice score. Still 5 lug and Euro headlight too. Can't tell what kind of shape the interior or rockers & pans are in but if they're anywhere close to the truck liner you're sitting real pretty. :D

Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:24 am

$1200 Canadian yet! Body is great all around. The interior is dirty and the carpets are shot but everything else about it is great. Just needs a good scrubbing. It's been in storage since 1973.

Thu Mar 25, 2004 12:21 pm

WOW! Awesome score!

Are those mats in the back brown or grey?

Thu Mar 25, 2004 12:26 pm

EverettB wrote: WOW! Awesome score!

That dash even looks good :shock: clean that lit'l lady and drive it.

Thu Mar 25, 2004 12:28 pm

They mat is dirt coloured actually :) Under all the dirt is charcoal gray. Black I guess.

I couldn't believe the dash wasn't cracked. I think it will clean up nicely.

Fri Mar 26, 2004 5:48 pm

Hey Ev, just for the record I've been cleaning tonight and the mat in the back is brown and not black. Couldn't tell through the sludge.