TheSamba.com :: View topic - How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions

Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:25 pm

I came up with an idea for the front adjusters. It is so simple that someone here must already have thought of it. It is also in my built thread ( http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=494322 ), but I figured it makes sense to mention it here.

My goal was to use the bug type adjusters with the adjustment screw and set screw
- this way I hope to solve the issues of slipping
- get continuous adjusting capability (the teeth ones adjust in steps ... from tooth to tooth, right!?).
- avoid clearance issues (bottom beam)

It is not fully done or tested yet, but I started with the modifications.

The basis for my idea is that it doesn't matter where on the beam the adjusters are placed as long as the retainers keep the right position - took me a little to realize this. The parallel position of the set screw on the stock set-up suggests that that the set-screws needs to be like this - not so!
The retainers can be held in position from anywhere on the beam. But of course you need a threaded hole in the retainer at that very position where the set-screw is.

With my application there will be (as marked with red arrows) another threaded hole in the retainer (left) and another hole in the beam.

... remember, this would not change anything. Just reposition the set-screw about 80degrees.

Next step then is to forget the original hole in the bottom beam and to cut the slots in both beams - upwards from the hole position (unless you wish to go higher ;) ).

Then the retainer needs to be drilled and tapped in the location indicated on the first pic here. And ready to go!

The next pic shows that there are no clearing issues with the bottom adjuster:

... although the adjusters will not sit on parallel locations on the beam, the adjustment will be, because both retainers, upper and lower, will be in the same position.

Sorry - it turned out a little wordy :oops: , but believe me, I tried to make it short.

Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:45 am

Good thinking.
I dont know too many people having problems with slipping, especially since beefcakes are available. I wave not seen anyone do it but I bet more people will now.
These adjusters are about 1/2 the price of beefcakes.

Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:22 am

cage66 wrote: ...
I dont know too many people having problems with slipping, especially since beefcakes are available. ...

I was close to ordering the beefcakes before I came up with my solution:

... but then again the adjustment with these is not continuous, but in steps - and with my luck the bus would end up either too low or too high for what I want ;)

Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:38 am

With the new location of your set screw, Is it gonna hit the dimple on the torsion leaves to keep them all centered up?

Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:50 am

TheBusStopFlagstaff wrote: With the new location of your set screw, Is it gonna hit the dimple on the torsion leaves to keep them all centered up?

Good question! There will have to be a new dimple :)

Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:36 pm

you might not have to change the dimple in the center, but when you narrow your leaves you could change the dimple placement on the ends.

Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:46 pm

With the weight of a bus and the pounding that they take on the front end, make sure the welds are very good on that adjuster style, as all the weight will be putting a twist action on that adjuster. The other style has a clamping motion to lock the center block which helps with the twist motion and not break the welds.

Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:58 pm

EmpiGT wrote: With the weight of a bus and the pounding that they take on the front end, make sure the welds are very good on that adjuster style, as all the weight will be putting a twist action on that adjuster. The other style has a clamping motion to lock the center block which helps with the twist motion and not break the welds.

.. yeah I will - thank you. I realize that these welds hold the bus up :)

Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:34 am

what is the widest rear wheel that can be used in a bus? I found some Killer wide wheels. I have a 68 long axel setup and looks like I will have to swap to a short setup. How much shorter per side is the short than the long? I did a bunch of measuring and looks like I can squeez them in there if I can get the hub in the correct spot.

Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:21 am

tonyc9928 wrote: what is the widest rear wheel that can be used in a bus? I found some Killer wide wheels. I have a 68 long axel setup and looks like I will have to swap to a short setup. How much shorter per side is the short than the long? I did a bunch of measuring and looks like I can squeez them in there if I can get the hub in the correct spot.

It also depends on the rear brake setup you're using and the rim/offset.

Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:39 am

tonyc9928 wrote: what is the widest rear wheel that can be used in a bus? I found some Killer wide wheels. I have a 68 long axel setup and looks like I will have to swap to a short setup. How much shorter per side is the short than the long? I did a bunch of measuring and looks like I can squeez them in there if I can get the hub in the correct spot.

you can't put short axles in a lowered bus unless you narrow the torsion housing too, otherwise your plates are not going to be straight coming out the torsion housing to meet the axle and your tires will defenetaly rub against the plate / torsion hosing

Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:48 am

mannys66 wrote: you can't put short axles in a lowered bus unless you narrow the torsion housing..

FALSE.

Short axles/tubes bolt right up to offset plates :wink:

That's the setup we used to get Danny's wide ass rims to fit...

Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:49 am

Was tire/spring plate clearance an issue with that bus? ^^^

Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:54 am

cdennisg wrote: Was tire/spring plate clearance an issue with that bus? ^^^

No more than any other Bus I guess... you just need to use the right setup to get things to fit in most cases.

Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:57 am

WideFive wrote: mannys66 wrote: you can't put short axles in a lowered bus unless you narrow the torsion housing..

FALSE.

Short axles/tubes bolt right up to offset plates :wink:

That's the setup we used to get Danny's wide ass rims to fit...

I stand corrected.
What about the front of the rim? how close does it get to the torsion housing?
or where do you offset the plate? same spot as all the others? or further up ?

BTW, Danny is the man!

Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:30 pm

tonyc9928 wrote: what is the widest rear wheel that can be used in a bus? I found some Killer wide wheels. I have a 68 long axel setup and looks like I will have to swap to a short setup. How much shorter per side is the short than the long? I did a bunch of measuring and looks like I can squeez them in there if I can get the hub in the correct spot.

if you run short axles with stock beetle drums you can fit a 8" rim with 0 offset. that is what i am running on the back of my bus with a 195/55-15.

Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:51 pm

You have to put that pic in "buses off the beaten track" ;-) /\/\

Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:14 am

cdennisg wrote: peecee69 wrote: I'm having a problem seeing how to maintain perpendicular tire to ground geometry with a swing axle transmission and straight axles.

I would think I'd need to use some sort of double u-joint setup so that the tires would maintain that geometry, loaded vs. unloaded. I'm trying to avoid the camber issues that will result from lowering my bus.

It is no different than when your bus is at stock height. With a single inboard pivot point, the camber will change as the wheel cycles through it's travel. When a bus (or beetle) is really low, negative camber will be excessive. That is where raised transmissions come into play.

If you do drop spindles and straight axle, with a 24"-25" tire diameter, and set the suspension so the bus sits level front to rear, your camber will be just about zero in the rear. Tire size and height changes will affect that either way.

I know people are tired of seeing this pic, but it shows a good example of zero rear camber on a straight axle setup. My old 65 Riviera.

What size engine were you running in your Riviera? Thats exactly the same transmission/tire size setup I'll be running and the only engine I have to build at the moment is a 1600 sp. I know it'll probably be sluggish, but I don't mind the right lane. I'd like to build a dp stroker, but it's not in the budget right now. I could also switch to a shorter rear tire to compensate, but really like the looks of the 205.

Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:39 am

Shaun Murray wrote:
What size engine were you running in your Riviera? Thats exactly the same transmission/tire size setup I'll be running and the only engine I have to build at the moment is a 1600 sp. I know it'll probably be sluggish, but I don't mind the right lane. I'd like to build a dp stroker, but it's not in the budget right now. I could also switch to a shorter rear tire to compensate, but really like the looks of the 205.

I had a few different engine/trans setups in that bus. It started with a 68 type 1 trans and 1641 DP with single carb. Worked just fine, but if heavily loaded for camping, it was a little sluggish. At htis time I was running 195/60R15 tires in the rear. I had a 1905 (?) stroker for awhile, and though it was very nice to drive, I could not keep it cool, and I had some oil ring problems with that engine. The trans started to pop out of gear around that time, too. So I had a trans built with stock 65 beetle gearing (I don't recall the exact numbers) and installed a strong 1600 DP out of a rolled Super Beetle. This is when I switched to the 205/65R15's in the rear. Worked great that way, though it was still slightly underpowered when heavily laden with gear and canoe for camping. I had no problem taking my time though, since I was usually on vacation. :D

Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:00 am

cdennisg wrote: Shaun Murray wrote:
What size engine were you running in your Riviera? Thats exactly the same transmission/tire size setup I'll be running and the only engine I have to build at the moment is a 1600 sp. I know it'll probably be sluggish, but I don't mind the right lane. I'd like to build a dp stroker, but it's not in the budget right now. I could also switch to a shorter rear tire to compensate, but really like the looks of the 205.

I had a few different engine/trans setups in that bus. It started with a 68 type 1 trans and 1641 DP with single carb. Worked just fine, but if heavily loaded for camping, it was a little sluggish. At htis time I was running 195/60R15 tires in the rear. I had a 1905 (?) stroker for awhile, and though it was very nice to drive, I could not keep it cool, and I had some oil ring problems with that engine. The trans started to pop out of gear around that time, too. So I had a trans built with stock 65 beetle gearing (I don't recall the exact numbers) and installed a strong 1600 DP out of a rolled Super Beetle. This is when I switched to the 205/65R15's in the rear. Worked great that way, though it was still slightly underpowered when heavily laden with gear and canoe for camping. I had no problem taking my time though, since I was usually on vacation. :D

Well, thats good to know, if mine is too underpowered I'll try a set of 195/60's on the rear. I'm usually just happy to be in the drivers seat and not too worried about the destination, or how long it takes to get there. So I'll just slow down and downshift if need be.