TheSamba.com :: View topic

Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:50 pm

I'm shopping for Westy. Often I will see listing where a 1.9 is supposedly upgraded to a 2.1. If there is no documentation, are there obvious visual clues to discern one from the other?

Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:26 pm

could be simply a big bore piston cylinder set installed in an otherwise stock 1.9 liter, not much for visual clues, or it could be a swap of a newer motor with all thedifferent looking newer stuff, then it should be easy to tell. engine code also sheds light on what it is or was.

my 2.2 started as a 2.1 and you cant see the bigger pistons without taking it all apart.

Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:30 pm

It would depend on how it was upgraded. If it's a 1.9 that's been stroked to 2.1, then there would be no visual clues. If a 2.1 block, then there are subtle differences. This GoWesty article does a good job of outlining them: http://www.gowesty.com/tech-article-details.php?id=64

Hope this helps,
Bill

Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:57 pm

1.9 vs. 2.1 ?

About 15 mph when driving up Vail Pass in Colorado :)

Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:30 am

Like 2nd at 35 v. 3rd at 50?

Did you recently rebuilt it to 2.1? Sounds like a lot for that 13 hp but I'd love to see that when we rebuild (probably going to 2.1 then).

(by the way, Greetings from a former-Lakewood resident climber-type) 8)

Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:27 am

It's not just displacement that differs. For instance, my 2.2 is a 2.1 block, but assembled like a 1.9. The two engines have different fuel and cooling systems. Many parts are interchangeable, but many aren't. I find that out nearly every time I shop for parts, finding that GW doesn't have it for the 1.9, but VC does. Since the OP is in CA, it's best to make sure whatever engine there is will pass smog.

Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:57 pm

A 2.1 engine installed in a '83-'85 van with all the 1.9 accessory parts that where on the original 1.9 engine will pass smog with flying colors here in CA. The smog tech has no way of knowing what the internal displacement is. As long as the engine runs clean and the original FI and ignition are used there is no chance of failure. I know of two people who swapped in not only the 2.1 long block but the whole Dijifant FI system as well and passed. In one of those instances the guy made sure to change the plastic Junction box that had the 2.1 correct vacuum hose diagram on the lid. The smog tech couldn't tell the difference. Same thing you put in a 2.2 or larger engine. As long as the FI and ignition parts are year correct, they can't tell if the engine is oversized.

Hans

Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:10 am

I have a 1990 gl 2.1 tin top manual. I've been looking for almost a year for a Westy. It's not easy finding one in Southern California in my price range ($15,000 or under) with AC (working or not).

This weekend I'm going to look at an 1985 1.9.

Last night I had a nightmare that the new Westy couldn't make it up a hill and was almost tipping over on every turn.

Am I going to hate the 1.9? Will it make my 2.1 feel like a Porsche?

My wife said, "Going slow is not our problem, it's the people behind us's problem."

I'm conflicted. Should I wait? Shopping for the Westy has been like having an itch I cannot scratch...for a year...

Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:54 am

llilibel03 wrote: ...Am I going to hate the 1.9?...

Drive it and decide.

The 1.9 is slow. The 2.1 is faster... but it's still slow.

Ours had a 1.9 for the first 15 years we drove it and I was never bothered by a lack of power.

Part of it is a driving style that acknowledges this thing will not be as fast as more modern, lighter, more powerful cars. So what? Your wife has the right attitude.

Part of the perceived power issue is (my opinion) that some drivers do not know how to effectively use what power there is. Two examples come to mind:

They shift way too soon instead of letting the engine wind out as it was designed to do.

They try to pass someone by pulling into the left lane and flooring the accelerator.

I've driven small 4 cylinder cars for more than 50 years and you eventually learn there is a lot more to driving than just going fast.

Disclaimer: 12 years ago we replaced the tired 1.9 with a rebuilt 2.2 and the additional power is appreciable and appreciated -- but the fun is still the same.

Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:15 am

The entire coolant system piping from the 2.1 engine can be bolted to the 1.9 engine.

So, here are a couple of things to look for in comparing the "outside" of the two engines.

1. The 1.9 engine does not have an oil cooler as OE equipment. The oil cooler is the square thingy that the oil filter screws onto. The oil cooler has a small water coolant hose from the water pump and then there is a hose out to the T-stat housing at the left front of the engine. The difference in the water pumps for the two engines is the nipple outlet for the hose going to the oil cooler, otherwise, same bolt up.

2. The 1.9 engine only has one oil pressure sending unit. It is located below the left side water jacket but above and between the two center push rod tubes. The 2.1 engine has two oil pressure sending units. One is in the same location as on the 1.9 engine and the other is left of and below the center of the crankshaft pulley. Basically, straight below the dizzy. It is quite difficult to access... belts all have to be removed. Look for the wire and follow it to the sending unit.

Note of interest: The GoWesty Printed Circuit Board for the Cluster will work on either engine (pre or post 1986 models). The instructions clearly identify a "dip" switch that must be flipped one way or the other, depending on which application (it comes pre-set for the 1986 and later engines).

Thus, if the engine appears to be a 1.9 on the outside, solid documentation that it has had a stroker crankshaft and/or big bore cylinders would be necessary for proof of being a 2.1 or larger engine.

Hope this helps.

Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:08 pm

under powered??????? Try a 1200cc 40 hp motor in a Microbus! first gear 5 mph up the steep parts of highway 80 in the mountains of california. wont even cut it in the truck lane, instead on the shoulder with hazard lights a flashing, but it made it. lots of time to enjoy the scenery. Heck we were so slow had time to get out and check the tail lights and jump back in without stopping!!! (well almost that slow)

Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:05 pm

bluebus86 wrote: under powered??????? Try a 1200cc 40 hp motor in a Microbus! first gear 5 mph up the steep parts of highway 80 in the mountains of california. wont even cut it in the truck lane, instead on the shoulder with hazard lights a flashing, but it made it. lots of time to enjoy the scenery. Heck we were so slow had time to get out and check the tail lights and jump back in without stopping!!! (well almost that slow)

I was actually watching a rerun of the "Lost" TV series and they're driving around in a Bay Window and it made me think, "The 1.9 is like a powerhouse compared to the 1.6...."

Maybe I just need a funny bumper sticker to excuse myself for holding up traffic going up hills ( I find Vanagons scream downhill....)

Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:38 pm

llilibel03 wrote: bluebus86 wrote: under powered??????? Try a 1200cc 40 hp motor in a Microbus! first gear 5 mph up the steep parts of highway 80 in the mountains of california. wont even cut it in the truck lane, instead on the shoulder with hazard lights a flashing, but it made it. lots of time to enjoy the scenery. Heck we were so slow had time to get out and check the tail lights and jump back in without stopping!!! (well almost that slow)

I was actually watching a rerun of the "Lost" TV series and they're driving around in a Bay Window and it made me think, "The 1.9 is like a powerhouse compared to the 1.6...."

Maybe I just need a funny bumper sticker to excuse myself for holding up traffic going up hills ( I find Vanagons scream downhill....)

Bumper sticker.....

I may be slow, but if your reading this I am ahead of you.

Slow Vehicle.

Faster Traffic Stay Left.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: