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  View original topic: Long-rumored electric Bus coming to a reality near you?
stevegibb Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:24 pm

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/jinkies-vws-id-buzz-elect...ne-1600091

-Steve

-Manggo '83 Westy

E1 Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:30 pm

No... PLEASE... No...

78busboy Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:45 pm

Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyselzYbaX4


I think it's a significant step in the right direction, but with more steps needed.

The Good:

Fully Electric
AWD
Modular
Utilitarian
Retro-ish design

The room for improvement:

Could be slightly larger
Front lighting design needs work
Range could be longer (though by 2025 this could be solved)


Let's face it: the volume requirement won't support a product that is not connected. So I would learn to live with all the screens and related tech in exchange for some semblance of the real thing that can travel far, AWD, without polluting.

And I don't like it either, but autonomous is the future.

I'm inclined to hop on the Buzz, Guzz.

Thoughts? What else do we like/dislike?

78busboy Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:48 pm

Oh, and the name is silly. -Might as well be called The Zamba. :roll:

raoul mitgong Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:54 pm

E1 wrote: No... PLEASE... No...

Almost 300 mile range, AWD, a driver's seat that CAN swivel, 369 hp... like the spec's so far.

If it is the electric part that turns you off, (wouldn't work for you since you are traveling full time if I've read your post correctly) I understand somewhat.
That range would work for, I'd guess, a majority of the outings done in Westies right now.
You could always start a business converting these new electric busses to 2.1l waterboxers!

-d

raoul mitgong Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:08 pm

Thanks for the video 78busboy.
What is up with those side view mirrors? Must have learned from the large floppy 80s mirrors and went with a dental mirror instead! And those big wheels, 20 inchers? Will need to drop down to 14" for a taller sidewall so it can be properly off-roaded.
-d

MsTaboo Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:09 pm

I kinda like the way it looks, but I hate the idea of the autonomous drive. (if you don't want to drive, take the bus or train!)
Hopefully they might make it available as a base model without the all the extra crap. A stripped down model might have a longer range. Wishful thinking I know; we are moving into an evermore lazy future.
I would imagine the thing will be a nightmare to work on when electronics start failing.

As a concept car it has the usual extra bells and whistles these things have, I mean those rear view mirrors are a joke, and where are the windshield wipers? How about that collapsing steering wheel? The idea is neat from an interior space perspective but it sure is small. These types of things usually get ironed out on the production cars.

I really like the idea of electric vehicles, they serve a much needed option to our gas depended society, I just wish VW would return (even a little) to their owner friendly service history.
Where I live, even here in the mountains of BC, we get a enough sunlight I could charge the van from home solar panels many days of the week. I like that idea a lot. The range and AWD would get us to our easier favorite local camping spots and fishing holes, in winter to the ski area. But I wonder how well all the new electronics will hold up to the salt and other crap they put on the roads around here.

I don't see the thing as replacing a Syncro, it's more of a pavement AWD. I'll be keeping my Syncro.

78busboy Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:34 pm

What IS up with those side view mirrors? They're actually cameras (that transfer the image to an LED screen inside). Not to worry. Can bolt on chrome side-views once those fail. Who knows? -This gimmick might not make it to the final version.

Also like the idea for an [integrated] solar [roof?] option.

Yeah, I also don't dig the low profile tires. But that's largely cosmetic.

And you are correct, Ms: AWD does not = locking diff.

But again: for me, a step in the right direction. Would get my crew and me to the slopes and the beach, in style. Camper version would create memorable vacations. Could pull stuff (within reason). Would fit in the garage.

?Waldo? Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:50 pm

I absolutely love the idea of autonomous drive. I have no doubt that even in the beginning, it will do a better job at driving than 99% of the drivers on the road. With more and more vehicles networked, the whole system will work better and better. In a very short time EVERYONE will get to their desired destinations much faster and safer. The whole network will know all the road hazards to avoid, where the wildlife are to avoid, etc... It will take the easiest/fastest route and obey all the traffic laws. Accidents will be almost entirely eliminated. The thing that excites me the most about it is the thought that eventually all the idiot drivers currently on the road will no longer be behind the wheel threatening my life and property. I'll gladly relinquish my hands-on driving in exchange for getting rid of the other drivers with a deathwish who think the goal is to 'get there first' rather than to get there without damage to property or loss of life. The thought that I can sit back and enjoy the ride is just a nice side bonus.

?Waldo? Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:03 pm

78busboy wrote: ... without polluting.

The idea that it will do anything 'without polluting' is a bit shortsighted. The way that the electricity is produced is often more pollution than using a gasoline engine. Even if the electricity is produced in a non-polluting manner (e.g. solar), it takes several years for solar panels to neutralize their production energy debt. Also, a new car has a HUGE energy debt just in its production. It will also have a limited useful life and will require 'disposal'. I think electric cars have great potential to reduce some of the negative environmental effects of the massive overpopulation of humans and their mind-bogglingly excessive consumption of natural resources, but there isn't any electric car that will do anything 'without polluting'.

hazetguy Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:07 pm

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=670513

MsTaboo Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:11 pm

Andrew A. Libby wrote: I absolutely love the idea of autonomous drive. I have no doubt that even in the beginning, it will do a better job at driving than 99% of the drivers on the road. With more and more vehicles networked, the whole system will work better and better. In a very short time EVERYONE will get to their desired destinations much faster and safer. The whole network will know all the road hazards to avoid, where the wildlife are to avoid, etc... It will take the easiest/fastest route and obey all the traffic laws. Accidents will be almost entirely eliminated. The thing that excites me the most about it is the thought that eventually all the idiot drivers currently on the road will no longer be behind the wheel threatening my life and property. I'll gladly relinquish my hands-on driving in exchange for getting rid of the other drivers with a deathwish who think the goal is to 'get there first' rather than to get there without damage to property or loss of life. The thought that I can sit back and enjoy the ride is just a nice side bonus.

My main objection to auto drive, especially in crowded city freeways, it it will remove the desire to leave the car at home and take the train/bus to work. If you can drive into town in your own little bubble there will be less incentive to take public transit- whose biggest attraction is the leisure to work/read/sleep while on the journey.
And what about all those inter-linked cars? Are they going to be free of hacking? And what about older vehicles that are still manual drive, will they become illegal? I can see the argument; the system will work better if we remove all those older cars, everyone must buy a new car!

If the problem is poor drivers with bad attention skills we need to remove distractions like infotainment systems within cars, not add more. Drivers training was a requirement to graduate from my high school and was an accredited class- how many schools are like that now? More training- less distractions.
I even go so far as to believe that automatic transmissions should be banned. Manual transmission requires the driver to have a better sense of the vehicles dynamics and offers less opportunity to indulge in distracted activities.
Too many people view the car as a mobile couch. I know I'm old school on this and kinda a grouch, but driving is privilege, not a right.

KTPhil Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:16 pm

I am afraid that the monkeywrencher in many of us (shamefully, occasionally myself included) will induce those who still drive their cars to "goad" the autonomous cars into odd behavior. Drive next to one, and briefly swerve; will the auto-car change lanes? What about aggressive "revenge braking" in front of them? Do they respond to turn signals like a human, or will they actually slow to make room (rather than speed up to close the small gap)? :twisted:

I would find the behavioral testing to be very tempting, though never to the extent of putting lives at risk. :shock:

Or is it just me? :-k

78busboy Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:31 pm

Andrew A. Libby wrote: 78busboy wrote: ... without polluting.

The idea that it will do anything 'without polluting' is a bit shortsighted. The way that the electricity is produced is often more pollution than using a gasoline engine. Even if the electricity is produced in a non-polluting manner (e.g. solar), it takes several years for solar panels to neutralize their production energy debt. Also, a new car has a HUGE energy debt just in its production. It will also have a limited useful life and will require 'disposal'. I think electric cars have great potential to reduce some of the negative environmental effects of the massive overpopulation of humans and their mind-bogglingly excessive consumption of natural resources, but there isn't any electric car that will do anything 'without polluting'.

Fine. Polluting less.

I just returned from a r/t NYC Colorado drive for a ski trip, and if I saw one wind turbine along I-70 and I-80 between CO and IN, I must have seen +1,000. No joke. So rather than short sighted, I'd like to think mine is the long view.

And let's keep it real: people are going to continue to buy stuff. Including new cars. I'd rather those cars have electric rather than combustion motors.

The way things are going, electric will become a net positive.

?Waldo? Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:07 pm

MsTaboo wrote: My main objection to auto drive, especially in crowded city freeways, it it will remove the desire to leave the car at home and take the train/bus to work. If you can drive into town in your own little bubble there will be less incentive to take public transit- whose biggest attraction is the leisure to work/read/sleep while on the journey.
And what about all those inter-linked cars? Are they going to be free of hacking? And what about older vehicles that are still manual drive, will they become illegal? I can see the argument; the system will work better if we remove all those older cars, everyone must buy a new car!

If the problem is poor drivers with bad attention skills we need to remove distractions like infotainment systems within cars, not add more. Drivers training was a requirement to graduate from my high school and was an accredited class- how many schools are like that now? More training- less distractions.
I even go so far as to believe that automatic transmissions should be banned. Manual transmission requires the driver to have a better sense of the vehicles dynamics and offers less opportunity to indulge in distracted activities.
Too many people view the car as a mobile couch. I know I'm old school on this and kinda a grouch, but driving is privilege, not a right.

I think you're right that it will eventually eliminate 'public transportation' or at least transform it entirely. There are already car sharing services and I can only see that type of system flourishing. You reserve your car for a set amount of time/travel, it picks you up, etc, etc... That type of system would work far better and be more efficient than any current public transportation system and so, good riddance to public transportation.

Anything can be hacked. I seriously doubt hacking will be an issue, though.

I can certainly see the potential that manual cars will eventually be banned on public roadways. When manual driving cars are a significant threat to the majority of law-abiding citizens on public roadways, they should be banned.

Automatic transmissions should be banned? LOL! You're just being silly.

What possible incentive would society have for forcing individuals into more difficult driving situations when in the very near future, even the best trained, most aware human driver will be a worse driver. As you say, driving is a privilege, not a right, and when humans are decidedly worse at it, their driving privilege should be removed.

EverettB Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:12 pm

There are 2 threads about this going on, let's use this one
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=670513



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