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Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:38 am

Hi,

I am going for my B.A.R. inspection this coming Tuesday for my 2.2 conversion. I was going to do it a while back, but things got in the way...

With that, outside of a normal smog inspection what are they going to be looking for. And, are they going to grill me on my work, etc.. the way the building inspector did when I did some electrical work at my house..

I did the KEP conversion and followed it to the letter with the exception of the cooling system, but I don't think that is going to be a concern...

Also, this is at Oxnard College, anyone have experience with them?

Thanks

Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:56 am

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3848413&highlight=manual#3848413

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4714358&highlight=manual#4714358

Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:34 pm

Thanks Jon.... appreciate your sharing...

John

Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:04 pm

Ah, A subject dear to my heart. If you have a KEP sticker save your time and effort and just to go a SMOG facility and show them the sticker. As long as your Cat is compliant and your Vacuum system and Charcoal canister is properly hooked up a normal shop can do it for you. You may have to try 4 or 5 to get them to do it.
I did the same dance you are doing right now and my Referee said that coming to him was not needed because of the executive order.
The referee is for Non EO conversions or for vehicles with obsolete parts. I am curious to hear of your outcome. I went in knowing what I know and hoping to get a Bar code sticker and was told point blank, that conversions with an OE will never get a bar code. My Ref didn't even look for a CEL because it is not required.
Keep us informed, I'd like to know if something changes.

Stacy

Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:56 am

16CV's wrote: was told point blank, that conversions with an OE will never get a bar code

that was part of my saga also
when I wanted to sell the Van without a song and dance about finding a smog shop that would respect an Executive Order

I went back to a referee until I got a bar code sticker

I explained to the Ref that smog shops are not willing to risk a 10k fine for passing an "illegal conversion".

The Ref nodded, agreed, and admitted they had gotten a lot of complaints about the policy of refusing to give bar codes to EO vehicles.

The policy of exclusion was reversed. I got a bar code sticker, my buyer was happy.

Even today, there are vans getting bar code stickers, that have EO conversions.. Smog shops dont want to have to do the referees job of verifying all the systems that are supposedly in the conversion.

And… and.. and

just get the friggin bar code

Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:54 am

Jon

How long ago was it that you got your Bar Code? My Ref even called his immediate supervisor and was told Subaru/VW/KEP No BAR code. He was a super cool guy and I felt he had my best interest at heart. He also said that if after 4-5 shops turn me down for a Test to then bring back a Written Work Order from a Smog shop that they Will/Can not Smog an Non Compliant vehicle to bring it to a Ref and they will then do it.
I am dying for my upcoming Bi yearly test to go to a shop for a Smog Test and force the issue with them that my vehicle is a compliant van.
If that guy from Ventura gets a Bar Code, I will be driving my van to that Ref and getting mine as well. My good friend from Santa Cruz and one from Los Altos has had exactly the same experience as me.

Stacy

Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:48 am

16CV's wrote: If that guy from Ventura gets a Bar Code, I will be driving my van to that Ref and getting mine as well. My good friend from Santa Cruz and one from Los Altos has had exactly the same experience as me.

I have canceled the appointment with the BAR Referee... I will take it to a smog shop first and see what happens and then to the ref if needed...

Thanks

Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:08 am

16CV's wrote: How long ago was it that you got your Bar Code?

open the 2nd link I posted in post #2 :-)

nacradriver wrote: I have canceled the appointment with the BAR Referee... I will take it to a smog shop first

open the 1st link in post #2, read my other posts further down the page also

imo you should go to the Referee, otherwise you will be hunting for a smog shop willing for a long time. And if you ever try to sell the van.. you will understand why a bar code sticker is essential.

Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:25 pm

Jon

I totally agree with you that a sticker is a great thing to have. I went in to the Ref loaded for bear. I had the same diagram as you have from the same person. I had a copy of the EO and a link to KEP which shows the proper Cat. I had no codes in memory and a functioning CEL. I took mine to a Smog guy I know and had him do a Pretest, and he found I had a Vacuum line reversed. I feel that was money well spent. My smog guy who I know really would not smog it for me. After I left the Ref I went and saw him and explained what I was told, he then did some research and called some hotline and they told him it was OK to Test a VW/Subaru/KEP.
Mr Naca, I agree with Jon about keeping your appointment with the Ref. But I would go and try 4-7 shops and see if they will test it. If they won't get a receipt from one stating why they will not do it. Go there with as much documentation as you can. Make sure your Sticker is mounted and you have a 58834 cat.
This is what I was told by a few Suby conversion guys, but I had to find out for myself. It took me 3 weeks to get an appointment
I wait with baited breath.

Stacy

Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:36 pm

16CV's wrote: If they won't get a receipt from one stating why they will not do it.

LOL! good luck with THAT!
BAR is trying to get a smog shop to go on record refusing to smog a vehicle with a conversion.. Why in the world would a Smog shop agree to do that?

Its about as likely as it is for a Smog Shop to DO the smog check on a vehicle with an EO..

fwiw, Stephan will even provide 1.8T conversions with bar codes.. and he Has an EO..

EO is just a way to sell kits
bar code stickers is what smog shops want, it relieves them of liability for smogging a conversion.

Some smog techs are just ignorant that a Van has a motor swap, and will smog it

So to the OP, IF you insist on going to a smog shop, Do NOT volunteer the info that it has a motor swap.. IF they figure it out, THEN try to get them to respect the EO (arrive with your own printed copy of the
EO, do not expect them to cooperate and look it up on their own system)

the whole can of worms is that Smog shops do NOT want to do ANYTHING that makes them liable.. IF they know the vehicle has a motor swap

anyway.. I look forward to your success, both of you.. share your results

Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:19 pm

Jon

If this guy gets a BAR sticker, I'll owe you a Hot Dog with Chili at this years Syncrofest.
I would think that if you tried to pull a fast one one on a Smog guy he would be less then inclined to try and help you do it legally.
I guess you could try it a couple of times at different shops and then just fess up from the beginning. I would try a Repair shop that does smogs as opposed to a Test only station. And even better would be a shop where they work on older vehicles as they will be more apt to listen and spend some to verify its legitimate.
I am curious to see how this plays out.

Stacy

Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:14 pm

16CV's wrote: I would think that if you tried to pull a fast one one on a Smog guy he would be less then inclined to try and help you do it legally.

The shop that smogged me before I had a bar code sticker, point blank told me
"if you had not told us, we would not have known"
this is a shop that told me their computer was down and could not verify the EO. They asked me to give them my copy "for their files"

as far as a shop being less inclined, IF they can tell its not a stock motor, they Already will refuse to smog the car. I know this from first hand experience. (which I have Waaay too much of in regard to smog shops and referees)

the whole point of a bar code, is it eliminates ALL of these "judgement calls"

Looking forward to sharing a FestDog with you, regardless who pays :-)

Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:13 pm

Jon_slider wrote: 16CV's wrote: I would think that if you tried to pull a fast one one on a Smog guy he would be less then inclined to try and help you do it legally.

The shop that smogged me before I had a bar code sticker, point blank told me
"if you had not told us, we would not have known"
this is a shop that told me their computer was down and could not verify the EO. They asked me to give them my copy "for their files"

as far as a shop being less inclined, IF they can tell its not a stock motor, they Already will refuse to smog the car. I know this from first hand experience. (which I have Waaay too much of in regard to smog shops and referees)

the whole point of a bar code, is it eliminates ALL of these "judgement calls"

Looking forward to sharing a FestDog with you, regardless who pays :-)

Hey Jon,

Again, I appreciate your post and sharing your experience...

This whole thing is sure a roller coaster.... With that, my smog is not due until August so I have some time... I'll circle back in a bit with the group to report my finding..

Take care

John

Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:23 pm

I had my Kennedy conversion done up in the bay area back in 2010, and right after, took it to a smog test shop in Ventura and it passed no problem. The tech even commented on the conversion and how clean the exhaust smelled.
Roll forward to 2016, and everyone is now demanding that I see a referee and get a BAR sticker. I have gone to three smog test locations here in Ventura and all I can say is that they must be fearing fines or liability. Something must have happened between 2014 and 2016. Let me know how your inspection goes or if you find a smog test location that will test a vanagon with a subaru engine

Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:59 pm

Perfect

Go to a few more shops and jot down their names and the techs names after they tell you no and go and see a ref.
According to my Ref, they will test your vehicle if they shops won't. If enough people keep getting turned down, then the Refs are going to be your best friend in helping to get a Bar Code.
My van comes up in October and I cam't wait to go and see what I am told. One side of me wants them to do be able to do it, and the other half wants me to get jerked around and sent to the ref so that I can plead my case for a Bar code.

Stacy

Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:13 am

So what's the news?

Stacy

Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:15 am

16CV's wrote: So what's the news?

same as before, smog shops want bar codes they can scan

you were told by a ref that you should go to a smog shop, and come back if they refuse

they refused

go back to the ref and get the bar code sticker

since you believe you need "evidence" of smog shops refusing to smog you, here is an easy way to get that

use the phone
call a smog shop and say,
"I have a Vanagon with a Subaru motor, it is covered by the Kennedy Executive order, can I have an appointment please?"

when you have called 3 shops and been refused by all of them, go to the referee

hopefully you will go to a different ref than before, and the next one will not refuse you. If he does, whip out the names of all the shops you called :-)

get back with your results, I want you to post a photo of your bar code sticker before we get to Syncrofest, so we know whos paying for the dogs.. LOL! 8)

Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:18 pm

Ok…

So here are some numbers for those of you that are having problems with getting you van through smog with out the coveted white sticker.

C.A.R.B. 1-800-242-4450

I called them and as stated, the Kennedy EO only makes the conversion a legal conversion with the parts they have certified… and does not necessarily mean that gets a clearance from BAR. BAR still has the determination to say what does and doesn’t need an inspection.

Bureau of Automotive Repair 1-800-952-5210 ask for Marvin.. Pretty nice guy!

As Marvin said; there should be no problem with the C.A.R.B. EO-248-2 and the smog shops should be OK with this.. But, and there is always a but, some shops taking the easiest path of resistance may chose not to inspect it. The smog shops should be versed on the EO parts. He did note that if you have a problem have them call their BAR contact… or Marvin. But again, even though the shouldn't they can refuse the inspection.

Should you strike out... as noted here by Jon and repeated by Marvin, before you schedule an appointment with the referee, you’ll need to go to three stations and get turned down… From there, you’ll need to go to the referee to which they will inspect the van and pass it… white sticker. If everything is there and works and they don’t pass it, or chose not inspect then you’ll need to call Marvin at the number above to get their office involved.

Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:22 pm

great!
now Show Me the Sticker!

the title of the thread made me think you were on your way to get your bar code sticker.. do it!!!! :-)

youve done a very good job of sharing How you are going to do it

the suspense is killing me..

did you pass

did you pass yet

did you get the sticker

can you show me the sticker

did you go see the referee yet

come on, Ive got a bet on a dog going, and Ive only got til May to pay up or collect

Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:46 am

Jon_slider wrote: great!
now Show Me the Sticker!

the title of the thread made me think you were on your way to get your bar code sticker.. do it!!!! :-)

youve done a very good job of sharing How you are going to do it

the suspense is killing me..

did you pass

did you pass yet

did you get the sticker

can you show me the sticker

did you go see the referee yet

come on, Ive got a bet on a dog going, and Ive only got til May to pay up or collect

Not yet, I am shuttling between the west and east coast for the next couple of weeks for business. I have an appointment for late February when things slow a little for me.

But, you might want to start buying 16CV those hotdogs...

This morning I got a call from the ref that works between Oxnard and Santa Barbara Colleges a supper informative guy.. This is the "boots on the ground person" so I am going to take his word as gospel..., and has seen quite a few of these conversions over the years...

I explained the situation of being turned down at the local smog shop after showing them the KEP sticker and the EO.... As he said find another knowledgeable shop as they should be able to look this up and pass it, or if they have any question to call the BAR.... chances are he will be the one that fields the call. Or, as he said.... bring it to them and they'll smog it....

Because of the KEP EO, and if you used all of the parts, they (ref) will not give it a bar code, but smog it... But, if you use any other conversion (Small Car, Rocky Mtn, etc..... or 3.0, 3.3) then yes this will require a bar code.

Just call the 800# and make the appointment... and why not, it is only $8.50 vs up to $60 the shop may charge...

I'll keep ya posted.... and may joing the two of you for some hot dogs in May..

Thanks