TheSamba.com :: View topic

Mon Jul 12, 2004 9:56 pm

After reading the paint questions of the last couple of years I have decided I am going to write a couple of paint FAQ/Tutorial.. there will also be a body work FAQ in the future and an oh Sh!t FAQ... OH I have very bad spelling.. SORRY!

SAFETY!!!! RESPIRATORS>>> NIOSH approved Only!! some of this stuff is CYONIDE !!! dont be scared.. just be SAFE!!

Environment.. Paint both.. garage what ever.. CLEAN IT>> the cleaner.. the less stuff in the paint you dont want.. also TURN OFF ANY fire or pilot lights

OK... first off we are going to talk about the materials needed. Remember this is for paint not body work, lets assume that we are working a NOS door shell needing no filler work.

Prep materials:

sanding
120 Grit paper wet dry..(all sand paper is wet or dry in the paint process)
300 grit
600/800 grit..(i perfer 800 but I am a lil anal.. 600 is just fine.)
GREY Scotch brite pads...(NOT RED!!!)

MASKING PRODUCTS

Masking type.. low tack automotive grade.. not normal walmart stuff, solvents in todays paint brake down normal masking tap. 3/4" and 2" assortment.
roll of masking paper... NEWSpaper can be used double or tripled up.. but does increase the chances of lint in the finished product.

PAINT...
ok first off.. brand.. thats up to you. I am familiar with VALSPAR/HOK, PPG, Dupont and Standox (current system at work..) also.. you need to decide what your top coat is going to be.. whether it be Single stage Enamel ( one 2-3 coat and finshed with no clear..) or a base coat./.(color pigment only)/ clear coat (adds shine and depth.. to base coat.) (from now on base coat/ clear coat will be known as BC/CC..) in acrylic all the way to the top of the line polyurethane....
so you need to figure out what kind of paint you need,want, or can afford.. and with product line information.. post a question..

BASICS Paint PRODUCT NEEDS..
Etching primer.. (this chemically bonds to bare metal and can be applied over filler..
Primer Filler/ high build primer... (a sandable primer that fills in sand scratches..)
primer sealer... seals outside environment out...
and your choice of top coat.

also, make sure you have the right reducers, and catalist for the above mentioned paints/ primers, for the TEMPERATURE the you will be spraying in.

TOOLS....
Soft foam block.. (3-4 dollars at your jobber)
DA sander.. Air preferred.. porter cable one you can get at homedepot is a good electric one..
Razor blades
PAINT GUN/S... wow now this is a hard one.. you like what ya like.. I prefer SATA for production work, Iwata for perfection work.. but both a VERY spendy for someone who paints 3-4 cars in their life time... SHARPE you can buy at home depot and lowes ... good gun for the $$.. also, the Devillbis finsh line series is a great beginner gun.. make sure you have the tips sizes for the different product

Random stuff from the Jobber store..
Paint strainer, paint stirers, Tack rag, lint free whipes, WAX and gease remover. guide coat and PRODUCT SHEETS!!!! READ THEM they give flash time, tie coat time.. all information you need...
steal some joy from the kitchen...

PAINT PROCESS

lets assume that we are starting with a BARE door shell. We need to make sure that there is proper adhesion of the first step of paint. to do this you sand at about a 25-30* angle in a cross hatch pattern. after this step we need to wash the piece you are working on. wash.. now we bust out the wax and grease remover..(this will be a very reaccuring theme..) i use a whipe on whipe off much like Mr. Miagi.. soak one of the lint free cloths with the remover and leave on dry.. and bust it clean... IF NOT you WILL GET FISH EYES... big no no.. then you get to see my FAQ fixing paint mistakes that I am going to write later.... the mix up some of the etching primer with the proper reducers, and spray that puppy... but how you ask.. ok well.. most paint use whats called a 50% overlap.. that mean with each pass you go over the last pass 50%... maintaining what is called a wet edge. Adjusting your gun.. I am going to take some pics and show that one later too.... play enough you can figure it out.. two coats with proper FLASH TIME.. ( the tme it takes the paints solvent to escape..) or you will get runs... and get to see the FAQ fixing paint mess ups..

ok .. we got the pannel all in etching primer..(hey ya painted something!! good for you.. ) the next step is to apply the primer filler.. this stuff is THICK!! (IMO nothing beats PPG k-36 or k-38...) ok. apply as mentioned above.. when your done.. aplly the guide coat. I doesnt need to be heavy just enough to see a lil bit.. AKA fog coat.. now comes sanding.. WET sanding.. ok. cut the 300 G sand paper and fold it around the soft block. keep the surface wet and sand in the cross hatch motion at 30* or so with a 5-6" stroke. do this till ALL of the guide coat is gone.. IF not you are going to leave a visable ring if there is body work in the substraight.. (painters call em ASSHOLES... 'cuase it makes ya feel like one when you spend all this time getting the car ready to paint.. you waste material and time painting.. and you get a ASSHOLE that you have to go back and repair.....) Follow up with a second guide coat and 600-800 in the same way as above.. Guaranteed no assholes...

TIP!!! If you have time let the repair sit for 2-3 weeks after applying the primer filler..(unless you have a baking booth.. and if you got one of those.. WTF are you doing reading this....) this will allow for the filler to shrink.. It will.. it will prevent sand scratches from showing up in the future.. at the same time sitting is helpful but not necessary... your call...

WASH AND W/G remover.. TACK RAG...
Primer sealer/ epoxy primer.. TRY to get it close to the color you are going to paint.. it will safe paint materials.. and$$..
apply as above with proper flash times...

light tack rag..

WET on WET.. that means.. after the second coat of sealer... comes the base coat... with proper flash time.. but with in tie coat limits.. usuall 35-50 minutes... ok.. spray one your base BUT!!! most base coats use a 75% overlap.. member this. OBTAIN good coverage.. pics up a coverage sticker at your jobber store.. some paints take 2 coats... some take 8-10.. depends on the kind of color.... and it "hiding abilities.."

light tack rag...

WET ON WET.. again.. clear coat or SINGLE STAGE... I like and first coat with a light to medium wetness.. and a heavy second.. thats just me.. some go med med.. or heavy light.. clear coats.. ONLY 2... IF you want more. let it dry.. wetsand with 600-800 and reclear... SUPER DEEP REALLY NICE finsih product that way..
SINGLE STAGE.. stop when coverage is achieved..

I AM sure there is a step or two I have forgotten.. post em.. any questions on the above.. Postem... I am more then glad to help people paint their own cars!! oh and you paint at your own risk.. what you do with this information is up to you.. BE SAFE!!!! !!!! going to try to get some pics loaded too.. like I said questions !! post em..

OH.. I am a ASE master cert autobody TECH and a I-car silver cert paint tech... so.. believe me if you want..

Tue Jul 13, 2004 5:01 am

Thanks Chillkoot

Really good write up there !

Be looking forward to your updates !!

Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:40 am

aggro_jo wrote: awesome job!! perhaps you could back up to the process for slightly pitted (rust) areas as that seems to be a concern as well.

wire wheel, acid stabilizer, neutralizer, skim coat of putty then etching primer?

is there a better way?

k I'll do one on rust too...

Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:44 am

Koot, that is awesome man! I just got some of my stuff painted today ( I had to buy another compressor). Maybe someday I'll be able to afford a total professional job done on my bug! :D

Wed Jul 14, 2004 4:58 am

Excellent report on the painting subject! Thanks, this is one of those topics that many people have questions on but don't raise their hand. It's not magic but a mystery to alot of people. I'll be looking forward to reading more!!!

Wed Jul 14, 2004 9:53 am

ssx wrote: Koot, that is awesome man! I just got some of my stuff painted today ( I had to buy another compressor). Maybe someday I'll be able to afford a total professional job done on my bug! :D

paul call you?? I told him you stay haven problems..

Quote: A braddah koot u had forget one ting. Wat about lunch,all dat work stay make me like grind and u no can leave dat out...lol. Good job brah.

Ebrah... they no know laulau and poki... so why try to tell them ono grinds

Thu Jul 22, 2004 8:25 pm

yo good post chillkoot yep yep k-36 thats what i'm talkin about. one coat of that is like 27,000 coats of the cheap isht. member the old k-200 days? :) tell these suckers on your faq when its out to stop doing scuff and shoots on vws. yes is came out as the peoples car but that doesnt mean we cant make them the gems they could be. if I buy one more vdub with house paint on it I'm going to shoot myself in the head. just because you have a brush and a gallon of sherman williams doesnt mean you are a paint tech.

(MY RHD DOESNT NEED A PAINT JOB.....JUST NEW SHINGLES.)

brandon

Sun Aug 15, 2004 1:35 pm

What grit paper should be used on all bare metal parts before etch primer? Or should the metal be left smooth and let the etch primer do its thing?

Wed Aug 18, 2004 2:02 pm

thanks chill i have just been trying to prime the bottom half of my car if only i had looked on the samba first
thanks for your time

Sat Sep 11, 2004 11:13 am

chill, I used a 1k sealer on my bare metal then followed by regular laquer mixed with primer to build some texture and get things smooth. how long should I wait until I spray my single stage urethane? should I reseal it and then spray the urethane?

-Leo

Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:00 pm

thats a pretty good disc. but remember that most of the dirt that ends up in the paint job came off the car , prior to masking drive the car around to blow the dust out of all the cracks then wash it and i mean wash it ,open the doors and deck lids and hose out the jambs and motor compartment realy realy good ,hose the wheel wells ,(headlights hold alot o dirt)remove anything you can masc all holes & vents from behind with 2 inch masking tape so air preasure from the spray gun will not blow in the vents and blow any dirt out on your cherry paint

for those painting at home do it at night when there are less cars driving around on the streets stiring up dirt if you can paint with the garage door closed to keep bugs out as soon as done painting (even between coats) turn off lights (they atract bugs)& open garage door
also turn off any gas operated apliances
and remember this could be dangerous or illeagle in some places this is where i should list the disclaimer but people do paint in there garages so do so at your own risk

if you need any more tips let me know

Thu Dec 09, 2004 10:49 pm

Can I just take a spray can to the interior of my baja? I don't want anything fancy, just a job that looks alright. This is probably a dumb question, but I just wanted to see the responses. Thank you in advance.

-Jennie

Sat Jan 08, 2005 5:21 pm

great information. now i think i will tackle the paint job myself. i have not been able to find anybody willing to take on the job. 1 place told me $10000.00 for a showroom paint job and $20000.00 for a show quality job.
anyway, could you give some advice on compressor requirements and any breathing apparatus necesssary for painting in the garage? also i was thinking of building a paint booth in my driveway. is this crazy?
thanks,

Sun May 01, 2005 10:41 am

good explanation! I wouldnt use newspaper for covering the car - use a smooth masking paper with a wax coating. It protects the car from all solvents used in today's sealers, laquers and enamel paints and clear coat systems. It also eliminates dust contamination from paper fibers. 8-)

Fri Jul 01, 2005 6:40 pm

Thanks fo da info here is mo

http://www.autobody101.com/forums/

Fri Jul 08, 2005 12:14 pm

Tacky: You will need a water filter for your compressor and make sure you got GOOD masks, the kind with the two filter things on the side, they work great.......My dad and i painted my car in our barn, and it turned out good, we just covered everthing up with plastic and wetted everything down......just make sure you have anything out that you dont want to get paint on, cause it will get at least a little paint on it........and make sure you have good ventilation for the room/booth. I'm sure building a booth in your driveway would work well.

Sun Nov 27, 2005 10:52 am

Would you want to use an Etching primer if you are not going down to bare metal?

Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:11 pm

Whats a guide coat? How do you do it? Why?

Wed Jul 26, 2006 3:54 pm

I have decided on the primer combo I think I need.
PPG DPX171 Etching primer
PPG K38 High build primer
PPG K93 Sealer
Does seem like a reasonable combination?
Also how do I know what catalyst hardners and such I need?

Sat Aug 05, 2006 6:16 pm

When it is refered to as wet on wet what exactly does that mean?