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  View original topic: 1904 VS 2054 Engine?
MikeLsplit Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:41 pm

Hi,

I'm looking to install either a mild 1904 or 2054 CC engine in my 78 vert.
1904 = 90.5 X 74mm crank
2054 = 94 X 74 mm crank


The car will be driven gently. I just want some power for - occassional snacking on rice.... :twisted:

Any problem with the 94's as far as heat if I don't want stand-offs?

I'm thinking about 044 heads and dual 40's to breath through.

Ideas?

What about reliability and durability of these 2 configurations?

Thanks a bunch.

Mike
74 Super
52 Zwitter
78 Vert

Glenn Sat Jul 24, 2004 3:29 am

My last 1904 had 80,000 miles before i rebuilt it. I was able to reuse the cse, crank, rods, heads and all the other minor parts. I replaced the pistons, cylinders, cam, lifters and someother high wear parts.

My current 1904 has pushed my 74 Beetle to a 12.72 in the 1/4.

Does that answer your question? :wink:

MikeLsplit Sat Jul 24, 2004 7:44 am

Thanks for the input.

I know that the 1904 will be reliable and durable, but what about a similar 2054 used gently and kept under about 4 - 4.5k rpms. :?

Heads will be 044s with 40 & 35.5,
110 cam
Dual 40's (probably unless I really need 44's, but I doubt it at low RPM)

I need a reliable, cool running engine that will pull nicely in town on on the highway without the need for stand-offs. No serious racing will be done.

Thanks,
Mike

philip1 Sat Jul 24, 2004 2:53 pm

glenn: wot combo u running in that 1904? for a high 12!

im 17, bout to start building a 2007 for my bug, which will be gud 4 daily driver, but very gud 4 the street :D kick sum dickhead boy racers :D

as for mikes 1904, go for the 44's, cam isnt a bad choice for ur type of driving could go for a 120?, but we no ull open it up abit, so go for a 'worked' set of 40x35.5 or 42x37 heads, for mor punch (always fun for the ricers)

as for cooling u cud go for the maxi pump brackets where the filter fits horizontally, or get a cooler for the oil.

gud luck wit ur decision :)

JC Saunders Sun Jul 25, 2004 8:56 pm

the 2054 is a good combo with the weber 44's. 120 engle camshaft or something close to those specs. 1900 will work great with a engle 110 camshaft with 40 or 44mm carbs
weber 44, verse 40mm carbs. the 40's will give you a little lower end, also good to use with a heavier car and smaller exhaust.the 44's will change your power curve to a higher rpm, but will also run out of air around 6000 rpm, depending on you camshaft selection.
in a vert 94's seem to run a little hot in a moderate climate. also consider your gear ratio and carburation when choosing your camshaft combination. the more duration, closer the gear, otherwise, the engine can loose hp. when driving with the convertible top down, the oil temp can run 20 degrees hotter. talk to your local engine builder. these guys usually know what will hold up in you climate. also make sure the can tune and dial the engine and carbs before using them.

ice baller61 Mon Jul 26, 2004 7:30 am

Glen, what combo are you using for that engine, those are some real good #s,,,

Glenn Mon Jul 26, 2004 7:50 am

The specs can be seen on my website. The link is below.

Kelley Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:29 pm

MikeL, if you're still considering the 2054, I'd suggest the 94mm T-1 nickies from LN Engineering, they're pricy at about 2k, but they'll be alot cooler than the iron cylinders. the 1904 I'm building follows Glenn's initial plan with a few changes including the nickies.

Chad M Thu Oct 07, 2004 3:27 pm

Glenn,

So when you're using the 94A's and the case has been decked 40thou are builders using the 2mm (or so) of shim at the bottom of the cylinder or are you splitting it up with a base shim and a copper gasket at the head? (fine tune the deck with or without the copper) I'll be keeping the CR below 9.0-1. I haven't bought heads yet but I'm thinking of using some cleaned up (not ported) 044's with 42X37 and weber 44's and a 120 cam.
Is the clearance in the engine bay of a '58 a problem with a little wider engine? I wouldn't want to trim anything in there.

Thanks.

Glenn Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:23 pm

Chad M;

I've always used shims under the barrels and lap the cylinders for the heads.

As for the width, what crank and what rods. A 86mm crank with 5.7 rods will be a tight fit.

Chad M Fri Oct 08, 2004 1:01 am

Glenn, it would be a 74mm crank with stock length rods.

Glenn Fri Oct 08, 2004 4:50 am

Chad M wrote: Glenn, it would be a 74mm crank with stock length rods.

Chad,

My 1904cc with vw length rods fits easily into my 74 Beetle with no problem.

Personally I've not installed a stroker engine in a early Beetle, but i do know that engine width is a problem in Ovals. So i can't give you an exact answer.

Your best bet is to post a new topic asking "Does a 1904 fit in a 58 Beetle without any trimming needed".

Bugzlife Fri Oct 08, 2004 5:50 am

2054cc is what I run, 94 A pistons, Bugpack clearanced vw rods, with .090 cylinder shims, but, for a street strip motor you may need some thicker custom made ones or some double stacking(which I don't recomend). Try for .060 deck-height for crank flex, is recomended so the pistons don't hit the heads at high rpm. I also used .040 CB Performance copper head gaskets. But remember my Min-scat d heads were flycutt for 13-to -1 compression. My chambers were 41cc's, if yours are larger you compression will of course be lower.

I also run the 44idfs webbers; with 36vents, .60idels, 200airs, 145 mains
but for top end I am going to the 38mm vents and rejetting. Maybe even one of those "glass ball" inlet valves. CB performance rotary fuel pump, and a 3/8" hard line. Holley fuel regulator.

I am running a "outragous" cam W-140, with 1.25 rockers, lift at valve was recorded at 5.30"-not really outragous, but the ramps are real quick, and if I split the case the FK89 will go in.

nsracing Sat Oct 09, 2004 8:25 am

There is no replacement of displacement! The bigger the stroke the better up to a point, of course. There is always a limit.

for the 74mm stroke, go with longest rods you can get away with for more power. Use "B" stroker pistons so the engine is not so long.

If the deck turns out too large greater than 0.040 thousanths, deck the case and you will have no need for shims. If the shims turn out to be too thin, deck the case or borrow some from under the barrels. You can take the meat from the case or the barrels.

But of course, use your head. Do not cannibalize the case unnecessarily. Deck enough so it is flat with the rest of the case or slightly under. Do not even chamfer the case if you are going to use shims anyway. A straight cut is fine with sharp shoulders. However, the shims would have to be beveled in the ID where it will meet the corner of the barrels.

Any competent machine shop should be able to make you some shims of any size thickness on any material you desire...aluminum, bronze, steel, stainless steel, 4140 steel.

Good luck.

Glenn Sat Oct 09, 2004 4:46 pm

The 1904 is a good combo with plenty of torque and the longevity of a stock engine. My last 1904 had 80k on it when i tore it down. The cam, lifters, rockers and cylinders has seen better days, but the heads, case, crank, rods and the rest were "freshened up" and reused.

Also the engine is barely wider than stock, so there's no tin issues or fitment problems.

k29349@yahoo Sat Oct 09, 2004 5:02 pm

nsracing wrote: There is no replacement of displacement! The bigger the stroke the better up to a point, of course. There is always a limit.

for the 74mm stroke, go with longest rods you can get away with for more power. Use "B" stroker pistons so the engine is not so long.

If the deck turns out too large greater than 0.040 thousanths, deck the case and you will have no need for shims. If the shims turn out to be too thin, deck the case or borrow some from under the barrels. You can take the meat from the case or the barrels.

But of course, use your head. Do not cannibalize the case unnecessarily. Deck enough so it is flat with the rest of the case or slightly under. Do not even chamfer the case if you are going to use shims anyway. A straight cut is fine with sharp shoulders. However, the shims would have to be beveled in the ID where it will meet the corner of the barrels.

Any competent machine shop should be able to make you some shims of any size thickness on any material you desire...aluminum, bronze, steel, stainless steel, 4140 steel.

Good luck.

I thought that longer rods moved the torque curve up higher in the rpm range. It sounds to me like he will be using this engine mostly down in the lower rpm range. Am I wrong?

danimal Sun Oct 10, 2004 11:37 am

russ, rod length selection on a street motor should be based on longevity, because there is no performance advantage to speak of... none of the hype you hear has ever been backed up with solid dyno testing... even the engine analyzer pro software shows no practical h.p. difference in rod length.

the reason for that is because rod length has such a small effect on piston tdc time... calculate it for yourself, and you'll see what i mean... the motor has to be really efficient to take advantage of rod length.

k29349@yahoo Sun Oct 10, 2004 2:37 pm

Ok, I can see where the engine would last longer with the longer rod. Thanks for the info!



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