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Miguel Arroyo Fri Oct 22, 2004 6:44 pm

I would like to paint my bug in its original beige color. The shop I went to uses PPG. I was thinking of using basecoat followed by clearcoat.

However the shop tells me that for non methallic light colors I would be better of with a single stage urethane. The shop owner pointed out that should I need to touch up the car later (due to a fender bender) it is easier to match the colors. Also when they do final sanding and buffing a repair is less noticible.

Finally he said that a single stage does contain the clearcoat mixed with the base color, and that at the end of the day the quality of the prep is more important.

What do you all think?

Thanks.

Glenn Fri Oct 22, 2004 6:52 pm

This is single stage PPG Deltron Urethane. Looks good to me and it's 6 years old in that picture.


marklaken Fri Oct 22, 2004 9:49 pm

are they painting it or are you?...from what i understand, single stage acrylic enamals are safer for DIY spraying. single stage is a little closer to the type of paint that vw originally used (there's was a single stage laquer based enamal, i think, no longer available because of air quality standards)...

also, my wife has a saturn that got scratched on two panels and was professionally repainted...you can feel and see the difference where the panels were repainted because of the clearcoat (it has a factory basecoat/clearcoat paint job)...waxing helps hide it pretty well, but i almost never wash that POS, much less wax it...i guess dirt also effectively hides it...

TimGud Sat Oct 23, 2004 7:40 am

I would go with the single stage enamel with a hardener if not building a show quality VW. For the same reasons your painter said and it is what belongs on the car. I have seen a few base coat clear coat VW's after a few years and it's not pretty once the clear starts to get sun damaged. Base/clear Looks weird on a VW even with fresh in my opinion.

Miguel Arroyo Sat Oct 23, 2004 7:46 am

Thanks guys for your information, I am going with PPG's single stage urethane.

rcadmus Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:32 pm

I just finsihed painting wheels with the PPG 2 part single stage urethane- looks terrific- but make sure you use a respirator good for organic vapors. The fumes from that stuff will knock your socks off! With the respirator - you can't even smell the vapors. Ace hardware has a $25 respirator that works great.


Watch teh PPG color charts- my glacier blue (a blu-grey) for my 58 turned out to be bright blue metallic with their formulation. We ended up scanning in a perfect match using the door off of the glove box.

The PPG
website has some formulations- iy shows my paint color# correctly, but lists it as a "VW Blue metallic" not exactly correct for a 58

novetti Thu Oct 28, 2004 7:07 am

I will paint my bus soon. I´m also deciding which paint system to use.

I see that the advantages of a single stage PU for a solid color is:
-easier to repair
-quicker to finish (spraying and clearcoat sanding is not necessary)
-cheaper because you will not need clear (less material)

My concerns would be:
-Is it more fragile? Does the clearcoat really protects the paint?

-If i would want to spray clearcoat in some areas over the single stage, does it need to be already polished and degreased?
If you do any sanding on the single stage Poliurethane (to correct a small runout for example), the PU loses it´s shine.
So do i need to polish this area to bring back the gloss before spraying the clearcoat?

I´m also looking to use PPG products, from epoxy primer to basecoat and clearcoat.
Is Deltron the best single stage Poliurethane system of PPG ?
Is it appropriate to take clearcoat sprayed over?

Thanks

Julio

rcadmus Thu Oct 28, 2004 11:00 am

Here is a lionk to the PPG site. The DCC acrylic urethane line uses a singlestage paint, and is two cpo omponent (actually three, since you need a reducer to thin the paint).

Thsi is their premium automotive refininshing single stage. IT has a fanyastic gloss- much deeper than clear coat. It looks liek one of those old mult- coat laquer paint jobd s taht were sanded between coats and buffed to a high gloss. IT is easy to repair as . Here is a spec sheet
link: http://www.ppg.com/cr-refinish/phase1/frmFindProduct.aspweel.

I wouild see noa advantage in clear caoting- this paint is tough- and wont weather like some of the clear coats.

Small inoerfection can be sanded out and then polished (after the paint gets hard).

rcadmus Thu Oct 28, 2004 11:02 am

Here is a lionk to the PPG site. The DCC acrylic urethane line uses a singlestage paint, and is two cpo omponent (actually three, since you need a reducer to thin the paint).

Thsi is their premium automotive refininshing single stage. IT has a fanyastic gloss- much deeper than clear coat. It looks liek one of those old mult- coat laquer paint jobs that were sanded between coats and buffed to a high gloss. I is easy to repair as Small imperfections can be sanded out and then polished (after the paint gets hard).. Here is a spec sheet
link: http://www.ppg.com/cr-refinish/phase1/frmFindProduct.aspweel.

I wouild see noa advantage in clear coating- this paint is tough- and wo'nt weather like some of the clear coats.

Bklyn63 Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:51 pm

I paint frequently. 2 stage paint is unneccesary on an old VW.

I used single stage PPG concept acrylic urethant. this stuff is fantastic.

SIngle stage has its benefits. Its easy to make repairs in the future compared to 2 stage paints.


I recently cut my roof out and welded in a ragtop sectio. I then painted my entire roof and blended in at the window post area. you couldnt tell a thing if I didnt tell you I repainted it.

check out my porject in the rants an raves section.

I Highly reccoment single stage ppg concept. its expensive but worth it. I have used dozens of paints in the past. this is the best stuff.

heres the shine:


58ragtop Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:08 pm

Bklyn63-
dude, im soooo drooling over that car :shock:

Bklyn63 Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:41 am

thanks man..I am tooo :wink:

novetti Sat Oct 30, 2004 3:50 pm

I really decided to use a single stage system.

Concept is the paint line name?

I checked on the PPG website their paint lines.

Deltron for what i understood is their premium single stage Uretane line.
And Global is tthe top of the line paint system for 2 stage.

I'm i right?

Julio

Bklyn63 Sat Oct 30, 2004 10:37 pm

yes its PPG concept DCC acrylic urethane.

its a bit tricky to find it on the site but its there...

call your local ppg dealer they have it..

Tim rag'59 Sun Oct 31, 2004 1:37 pm

single stage is a no brainer :wink: ... catalize it, spray it, buff it... what you get is pretty much what you get. not happy with the "peel" then wet sand it and buff it. I sprayed single black on my '59 looks great. but if I want a serious paint job there is no doubt it's got to be 2 stage, autoclaer sikkens or equal, single stage dies just as fast if not faster if exposed to the sun...so on that note when it comes time to "freshen" it you actually take the paint off when you buff it (..remember the cars were you can see through to the primer it's been buffed so much) 2 stage your simply polishing the clear and you can even wet sand it with 2500 if that doesn't work. you can always add more clear to a 2stage (2 or 3 coats) when you spray it,single, the more you put on the more the chances are that it will solovent pop and or run to the floor. all car that are classics deserve some sort of a decent paint job...it saves from doing it over again in acouple of years,I don't mean trailer queens or 3000 miles a year cars I mean cars that see a great deal of driving....spray it right and it will last a lot longer.. on another note...when it comes time to repair it, how many have tried to "blend" a single stage paint? panel painting always lends it self to a crappy out come...2 stage, blend the color into the next panel and clear it...your done. just something to think about.
-Tim
click here...single stage u-tech(sikken) painted in a "cover-it"...
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=68342

Bklyn63 Sun Oct 31, 2004 2:47 pm

I dissagree, single stage paint was easy as cake compared to blending clear...ever blend clear? its not easy..you can always tell when someone blended clear...

Teeroy Sun Oct 31, 2004 3:50 pm

Leo , you don't blend the clear , you blend the color , then clear the whole panel . The only time you need to blend the clear in , is if you don't have a seam to tape (a sail panel for example)

By the way a clear coated finish will hold up better than a single stage ( UV protection) and aren't any harder to spray .

Whatever way you choose to go , always stay with the same brand and line/type of paint from your undercoats all the way to your top/finish coats . TROY

Bklyn63 Sun Oct 31, 2004 4:11 pm

I meant clearing window posts or quarter panels..


I usually blend those areas wit hsingle stage with no problems...

I wasnt talking about entire panels. clear you can always tell when its blended.

depends what the person wants to use single stage or clearcoat....

I have never seen single stage degrade faster than 2 stage...

Tim rag'59 Sun Oct 31, 2004 9:05 pm

which lasts longer is open for a million opinions,but guy,I've been doin' this for a long time,my '59 is single stage...did you check the pic? I'm in this boat with you but when your car gets scratched or god-forbid dented...you won't be "blending " any single stage paint.you'll be panel painting ...fender off the car and if it's a 1,3,6 year old paint job you are going to fight to get the same "affect" as the rest of the car. with 2 stage you can color map the color to it's hue and fade and even color hold out and you'll get the color perfect...yes perfect even on a 6 year old "single" stage paint job. your paint job will die out,reds are the worst...now if it doesn't see the sun every (summer) day and she's waxed regularly, yeah she'll last for awhile but in time she'll fade. my black is the same deal,single is "easier" to mantain is said a thousand times but I have yet so see it...
-Tim

Bklyn63 Mon Nov 01, 2004 5:56 am

with paint, you pay for what you get. you can buy 3rd dimension paint which is economy paint or PPG concept which isnt cheap.

mettalicks I would paint 2 stage but if you cant handle painting 2 stage paint use single stage.



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