TheSamba.com :: View topic

Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:21 pm

Hey there.. is it possible... well, anything's possible I guess.. but how easy is it to get the autotragic out of the car and a manual gearbox in place?

Specifically: shifter & linkage, clutch pedal & cable, final output modifications?

Thanks in advance,

-greg-

Wed Nov 03, 2004 3:40 pm

There's a guy named Ray Greenwood at www.shoptalkforums.com thay has done this before I think. If you go over ther, you'll want to search in the 411/412 forum.

Thu Nov 04, 2004 6:56 am

I've got a 412 with manual tranny. From my understanding, it is a unique beast which operates well, but, once broke, its broke. No replacement parts. As the autotranny was the same as used in the Type 3, replacement parts can be obtained. I just ordered and installed a new gasket/seal set on my other 412 (obviously with an autotranny).

Like Ecdez says, check out the other 411-412 forum, do a search. Sure you'll come up with some threads on the subject.

Thu Nov 04, 2004 7:04 am

Panzerace 88 wrote: No replacement parts. As the autotranny was the same as used in the Type 3, replacement parts can be obtained.

Thanks for the input, guys.. This topic is on behalf of a friend who is possibly picking up a 412 soon... So, my next question: if the autostick is the same as found in the T3, is there any logic that a T3 manual would swap into a 412? I have a '67 Squareback, which is destined for a 2.2L Type4 swap - and I'm thinking of adapting a 901 transaxle to it - so I'd have a spare T3 transaxle kicking around.

I haven't torn into the T3 yet, so I'm still not 100% certain what parts it's comprised of...

Thanks,
-greg-

Thu Nov 04, 2004 7:24 am

Sorry but the tranny from a '67 would be a swing axle tranny. It's a totally different animal.

Thu Nov 04, 2004 8:19 am

ecdez wrote: Sorry but the tranny from a '67 would be a swing axle tranny. It's a totally different animal.

How about a type3 manual tranny from '69-'72 (IRS)?

Thanks,

Kevin

Thu Nov 04, 2004 9:03 am

Not sure, but if no one else chimes in, I'll check my Type 4 books tonight and see.

Thu Nov 04, 2004 9:37 am

ecdez wrote: Not sure, but if no one else chimes in, I'll check my Type 4 books tonight and see.

Excellent, thanks!

Thanks,

Kevin

Thu Nov 04, 2004 11:53 am

Ok, here's the low down on the manual transaxles. First off, swapping in a Type 1/3 transaxle would require a lot of work and fabricating. Among the differences, the hockey stick is higher on the nosecone. The shifter rod wouldn't line up. This is a conversion I wouldn't recommend.

The closest I've found to matching is the Porsche 901 (early 911). The hockey stick is in the same area and the dimensions seem to be about the same. You'd have to do some modifications, as the 901 had a cable operated clutch, whereas the 411/412 had a hydraulic clutch.

I hope this helps....

Tuna

Thu Nov 04, 2004 1:21 pm

I would look for a Type 4 manual first, they are rare, but are around. It's a straight bolt in for all the trans/shifter parts.

Fri Nov 05, 2004 6:44 am

First all, she's a full auto and not an autostick.

My 74 412 wagon (the automatic) has all the plumbing for a manual. When I had the tranny out, I was thinking, what are all these holes for??

So, your 411 should be designed the same.

From my understanding and from what I've read on the other forum, the manual 411-412 was not really offered in the US market. A few made it over (service men I suppose), perhaps some special orders.

I guess in reality, parts could be obtained for the manual 411-412, but from the Euro aftermarket. I not really into all the monitary conversion, no real recourse if I didn't get what I paid for, etc. Not sure about the Canadian market (if the manaul was an option), but I do know there are bunches of Type 4s up there.

Fri Nov 05, 2004 7:38 am

I thought the 2 door sedan came only with the 4 speed and all others came with the automatic in the U.S. Just keep an eye out, there was somebody selling a whole engine and 4 spd. together on the samba awhile back, then there was someone else selling just the trans. before too. I'm sure another will pop up eventually.

Fri Nov 05, 2004 8:35 am

I thought the two doors all came with 4 speeds also :? .

Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:13 pm

I need to read more and talk less. :oops:

Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:41 pm

i worked in a VW trans shop in so cal in the late '70's early '80's and have only seen one 411 with a four speed. come into our shop. we did get a couple of the 411 4speed boxes one time with a batch of cores we bought. at the time I was told that the manual trans only came in the 411 model and the 4speed model was not sold by VoA in the united states west of the Mississippi river. I don't know if that was true or not. but it's just what the boss told me. but if it is true you might check wrecking yards in the eastern united states. if you find one you might want to get the shifter and all the shift linkage. as well as the pedal cluster to go with the gearbox. hope this helps. :D

Sat Nov 20, 2004 7:32 pm

From what I've gathered over the years, all of the 411s and 412s sold by VWoA were automatics with EFI. They were either wagons or 4-door sedans. The 2-door sedans had the manual trans, but it was never officially sold here. That being the case, replacement parts for the manual trans are rare, as according to VWoA, they were never sold here.

It'd be like going to your VW dealer and asking for replacement parts for a Brasilia. They aren't going to have them, as they were never sold here.

Tuna

Mon Nov 22, 2004 8:26 am

tuna wrote: From what I've gathered over the years, all of the 411s and 412s sold by VWoA were automatics with EFI. They were either wagons or 4-door sedans. The 2-door sedans had the manual trans, but it was never officially sold here. That being the case, replacement parts for the manual trans are rare, as according to VWoA, they were never sold here.

It'd be like going to your VW dealer and asking for replacement parts for a Brasilia. They aren't going to have them, as they were never sold here.

Tuna

Are you sure? If anything, VWoA is mistaken about its own products because there are a number of 2 dr. 4 spd. cars in the U.S. The info I got with one of my cars suggests it was sold new by a dealer in the states.

Tue Jan 18, 2005 7:29 pm

The 2 door could be bought with a stick. It is some sort of hydraulic mechanism I think. You can take that tranny and pop it into an auto car. I looked into this a few years ago when I was thinking of buying a 412. It is tough to find a stick and, as was noted, rebuilding a tranny will be tough for lack of parts.

Tue Jan 18, 2005 7:45 pm

Yep, hydraulic clutch. From what I have learned the 2dr. sedan 4spd. cars were very, very rare, especially in the U.S. VW probably made many more Kubels, or Schwimmwagens, Type 34 Ghia's, well, you get the picture... I have never seen a 412 2dr. 4spd. beside the ones that I own. :lol: People did save them, though, and many cars and transaxles have been coming up for sale. There's a 4spd. 411 on ebay as we speak, as well as a 4spd. trans. in the classifieds of this very site. There was a 412 2dr. 4spd. rusty, but excellent mechanicals for sale in the NE recently for $500, plus several others on ebay in the last year or so.

Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:15 pm

If you are looking for a cheap 4 spd for your 411/412 automobile, my homie has one he will sell cheap if interested e-mail me at myb356@yahoo.com