TheSamba.com :: View topic - BIG problem....raised rear...bent arm..... suggestions?

Sat Nov 06, 2004 12:24 pm

My car: 74 baja bug stock suspension & engine

heres the first part of my story....

I finally got all the parts I thought I'd need to raise the rear according to a few of you here at thesamba offroad forum. Type4 cv's, axles, flanges and modified type1 stub axles.
I took these parts to an offroad fabricator down the street, showed them to him and sayd 'I want to get as much lift as possible with these parts'. He told me all he could do was basically twist the springplates so that they are constantly touching the stops and there was no need to replace the type1 parts but that would mean I wouldnt have down travel. I told him thats why I got the type4 cv's because they could handle the angle the down travel would create. He sayd if he were to notch the plates and raise it anymore I would need longer axles but it wouldnt work because when the suspension came up it would crush/smash the axles in between both cv's. If I wanted more lift I would have to buy longer and wider arms.

That info conflicts with some of the suggestions recieved here and was really confusing me. So I went home and decided that I really dont need the down travel and It would also save me money. Besides the guy is an offroad fabricator, he has worked on race cars most his life and seemed to know what hes talking about.

I went back and told him thats what I wanted to do, stay stock and raise it to the stops with the exception of dual springplates and urethane bushings. He quoted me a price of about $150 for 2hrs to do the job, Damn! this guy must be good!

It was around 8 in the morning and he told me to come back around 3 in the afternoon, that he would have it done by then. When I showed up he hadnt even completed the first side he started on and when I asked him what the problem was he said " I've never lifted a stock bug this way before, I usually just grind the stops off". :?

I took a closer look and saw that he ground about a sqr inch off the tab/mount on the trailing arm that bolts to the springplate and knicked the suspension stop above the springplate with his grinder. The trailing arm looked smashed up from being beaten hard with a BFH.

Lets just say I went home pretty pissed off...... without my car!

Lots more to the story but I'm fealing pretty sleepy right..... I'll post the rest later along with some pics....

Sat Nov 06, 2004 12:35 pm

Unfortunately, all I can offer is my sympathy. If it makes you feel any better I have spent $5000 in auto repairs this year. I've gone home pissed more times than I can count!

guy

Sat Nov 06, 2004 4:18 pm

man i would take my car home and do the work myself, this guy sounds like a hack. what you went with is pretty straight forward and dosent involve a BFH and why he took a grinder to your arms i cant figure out...the swingarm stop i could see, but the arm? rescue your car man!
i say take it home and do the work yourself, from what you said and the questions you asked and had answerd just in here on this forum i think you understand what you want and how to get it.

Sat Nov 06, 2004 5:14 pm

Just wondering, can you get lift by removing the stops only? Then add some aftermarket stops, or straps? I've seen a number of post about removing them and adding straps, but I'm not sure if that will give me extra hieght without turning the torsion bars?

Sorry to hijack your post.

Best advice was already given. Take it home, do it yourself.

Sat Nov 06, 2004 6:26 pm

NO, removing the stops does nothing to increase lift only downward travel but if you have stock CVs and axles you will destroy the CVs very quickly, like the first time you take it out. Do not remove the stops unless you have type 2, 4 or 930 CVs and have installed straps in their place. The only way to really get lift is to turn the torsion bars or you can install coil over springs in the rear and adjust them all the way up.

Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:47 am

Nicksan wrote: NO, removing the stops does nothing to increase lift only downward travel but if you have stock CVs and axles you will destroy the CVs very quickly, like the first time you take it out. Do not remove the stops unless you have type 2, 4 or 930 CVs and have installed straps in their place. The only way to really get lift is to turn the torsion bars or you can install coil over springs in the rear and adjust them all the way up.

True but you can still use your type one parts as long as you use limiting straps and set them so they stop the arms before pulling on the cv's. Not sure how much down travel will be gained though, I'm guessing its not much or really worth it unless you are raising the rear. If you grind the stops off you might as well take everything apart and twist the torsion. Once the stops are gone that kind of job becomes much easier to do.

As for the coilovers, thats what I shoulve done.......

Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:47 am

ft_irwin_73baja wrote: man i would take my car home and do the work myself, this guy sounds like a hack. what you went with is pretty straight forward and dosent involve a BFH and why he took a grinder to your arms i cant figure out...the swingarm stop i could see, but the arm? rescue your car man!
i say take it home and do the work yourself, from what you said and the questions you asked and had answerd just in here on this forum i think you understand what you want and how to get it.

Too Late!!!! :x :x :( :cry:
Like I said, there is still much more to the story........
I appriciate the comments and youre right, I can definetly do that job and I can sure as hell do a better job then the hack man I took my car to. Btw I live in an apartment.... that means no garage and they dont let us work on our cars in our parking lots. Its either take my chances with the shitty as overpaid mechanics in my town or not get it raised at all.

Anyway, Let me pick up where I left off.....

so I left my car there and went back the next day expecting the left side (first side he started on, the side he bent) and the right side to be finished. NOPE! I show up and only the left side was done. I even mentioned the hammer marks to him but he didnt answer me. I couldnt really tell if the left side was crooked scince that was the only side that was raised and my whole car sat at a slant. Unfortunatly for me it was a friday and it was the end of the day and he couldnt do the other side so I took the car to work over the weekend. I came back monday, dropped off the car early morning and returned around 4:30 in the afternoon and he wasnt even around. My car hadnt even been touched the whole day and I just started cusing right there....man I was pissed! Even more pissed than the first time! He had my keys and I had no choice but to leave it over night.

I decided to give him one more day to do the job and went back later the next. As soon as I got there I got a smile on my face because he had finally finished the job but it quickly faded once I notice that the left tire had camber when it shouldve been sitting straight. That was the first thing I mentioned.... he said it looked like it had camber because of the way I had pulled my car into the spot. I couldnt beleive he told me that... I wanted to drive my car to see if it just needed to be driven around to settle down or something but he wouldnt give me my keys until I payed him. So I paid him took off and drove the car around, when I checked the tire again it looked like it had even more camber than before.

If thats not bad enough he ended up charging me $500 for 6 hrs of work when he had quoted me $150 for 2 hrs. He even lied to my face and sayed he never quoted me that price, that he never told me it would take 2 hours. DAMN!! :evil:

So I've been going back everyday arguing with him and he still keeps lying to me....I'm thinking about taking this guy to court because the only thing he can do for me now is buy my a new trailing arm and I doubt that he will if I ask him.

I'M GOING TO TRY AND POST SOME PICS IN THE THREAD BUT IF IT DEOSNT WORK I'LL JUST POST A LINK TO THE OFFROAD GALLERY IN THESAMBA.

THE PICS WERE TAKEN WITH AN HP PHOTOSMART 318 WHICH JUST HAPPENED TO CRAP OUT AS I WAS TAKING THE PICS SO THEY ARENT THE BEST QUALITY.

having trouble I'll post them soon....

Sun Nov 07, 2004 4:07 pm

Ok, I just took some really good pictures of the spring plates (both sides) and the tires.

I'll post them in the offroad gallery......

I think the pictures explain it all.

Sun Nov 07, 2004 4:37 pm

DanGreen1 wrote: ft_irwin_73baja wrote: man i would take my car home and do the work myself, this guy sounds like a hack. what you went with is pretty straight forward and dosent involve a BFH and why he took a grinder to your arms i cant figure out...the swingarm stop i could see, but the arm? rescue your car man!
i say take it home and do the work yourself, from what you said and the questions you asked and had answerd just in here on this forum i think you understand what you want and how to get it.

Too Late!!!! :x :x :( :cry:
Like I said, there is still much more to the story........
I appriciate the comments and youre right, I can definetly do that job and I can sure as hell do a better job then the hack man I took my car to. Btw I live in an apartment.... that means no garage and they dont let us work on our cars in our parking lots. Its either take my chances with the mechanics in my town or not get it raised at all.

Anyway, Let me pick up where I left off.....

so I left my car there and went back the next day expecting the left side (first side he started on, the side he bent) and the right side to be finished. NOPE! I show up and only the left side was done. I even mentioned the hammer marks to him but he didnt answer me. I couldnt really tell if the left side was crooked scince that was the only side that was raised and my whole car sat at a slant. Unfortunatly for me it was a friday and it was the end of the day and he couldnt do the other side so I took the car to work over the weekend. I came back monday, dropped off the car early morning and returned around 4:30 in the afternoon and he wasnt even around. My car hadnt even been touched the whole day and I just started cusing right there....man I was pissed! Even more pissed than the first time! He had my keys and I had no choice but to leave it over night.

I decided to give him one more day to do the job and went back later the next. As soon as I got there I got a smile on my face because he had finally finished the job but it quickly faded once I notice that the left tire had camber when it shouldve been sitting straight. That was the first thing I mentioned.... he said it looked like it had camber because of the way I had pulled my car into the spot. I couldnt beleive he told me that... I wanted to drive my car to see if it just needed to be driven around to settle down or something but he wouldnt give me my keys until I payed him. So I paid him took off and drove the car around, when I checked the tire again it looked like it had even more camber than before.

If thats not bad enough he ended up charging me $500 for 6 hrs of work when he had quoted me $150 for 2 hrs. He even lied to my face and sayed he never quoted me that price, that he never told me it would take 2 hours. DAMN!! :evil:

I'M GOING TO TRY AND POST SOME PICS IN THE THREAD BUT IF IT DEOSNT WORK I'LL JUST POST A LINK TO THE OFFROAD GALLERY IN THESAMBA.

THE PICS WERE TAKEN WITH AN HP PHOTOSMART 318 WHICH JUST HAPPENED TO CRAP OUT AS I WAS TAKING THE PICS SO THEY ARENT THE BEST QUALITY.

having trouble I'll post them soon....

Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:40 pm

..........ouch.
Sounds like a real top notch off-road guy.

Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:14 am

that so sucks that you cant work on your car yourself where you live....
do you have a buddy with a garage? bribe him with beer?
as to that mechanic, i would kiss his him with the good ol tire iron just for being that stupid......he acted like it was no big deal and then got retarted on your car and did a half a** job and charged you an arm and a leg just to basically screw up your rear suspension? man that just isent cool!
any ideas on what you are going to do now?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:28 am

Not sure what to do....

The pics show the obvious problem and after staring at the hammer marks on the arm I came to the conlusion that maybe the arm isnt bent but the tire is tweeked because the springplate to trailing arm mounts dont line up and the bushing fit too tight and it wasnt properly set so the spring plate is a little bent. I'll take pics of this later.

what are my options???

1) go rictor on this guy and show him that he cant get away with that kinda shit! (as much as I'd like to that wont solve anything :roll: )

2)calmy and peacefully talk to him and try to get something worked out (dont think this will happen though)

3)talk to credit card company and see what they can do for me

4) take him to small claims court and present all the fact and evidence

Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:47 am

I really dont want this guy touching my car again and I really dont want to talk to him again.

This is the situation.... its his word against mine and I have photographic evidence and physical evidence that my tire was not tweeked before he did any work on it. My car has never been in a collision either so thats out of the question. He never printed up any paperwork and I never signed anything. The only paper work that exists between us is a credit card payment reciept.

Oh, I guess I have another option....

5) pay the $500 , never go back and fix it myself :cry: :x :evil:

Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:12 am

I THINK I FIGURED IT OUT!!!

I think the reason he put the left side back together so f%$@ed up is because he was trying to hide the piece of trailing arm he ground off. Looks like he took the BFH and smacked down on the middle until the mistake was hidden between the plates.

Maybe I didnt notice any camber when I picked it up the first time when only the left side was raised because it was put together fine and it didnt have any camber.

Remember how I sayd I dropped my car off monday then came back later and nothing had been done to my car?......

I sat there all pissed starring at and around my car and noticed that quite a bit of dirt, mudd and paint had been knocked loose from my car and onto the ground. Friday they swept so when I pulled in on Monday the floor was spotless and the only dirt on the ground was from my car.

He sayed he didnt work on it monday but that cant be true scince the dirt on the ground was proof.

like I said lots more to the story....

Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:38 am

i cant comment much right now other than: wow... that sucks

Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:52 am

Dan, did you use the stock trailing arms that were on your 1974 bug. If you did they will not work with the dual spring plates. I believe this is the problem you are running into. I had the same problem, but now I have the arms that were designed for the dual springplates and now everything lines up. Hope this helps,later Mitch

Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:42 pm

vwclass11@aol.com wrote: Dan, did you use the stock trailing arms that were on your 1974 bug. If you did they will not work with the dual spring plates. I believe this is the problem you are running into. I had the same problem, but now I have the arms that were designed for the dual springplates and now everything lines up. Hope this helps,later Mitch

you obviously havent read the whole thread, I dont blame you..... I mentioned I'd be posting pictures in the offroad gallery, check them out. They show the problems I'm having. I dont think what you mentioned is the problem in my case though but thanks anyway.
The right side is fine its just the left side that turned out crooked. Look at the pix and you'll see why.....

Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:50 pm

HamburgerBrad wrote: i cant comment much right now other than: wow... that sucks

I know...

Mon Nov 08, 2004 8:36 pm

.
.
.BTW...I think he reversed your springplates.
I've never seen the guide hole (the 4th hole farthest towards the front) on the bottom.

........could be wrong, though.

Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:11 am

westy wrote: .
.
.BTW...I think he reversed your springplates.
I've never seen the guide hole (the 4th hole farthest towards the front) on the bottom.

........could be wrong, though.

reversed or not, I dont think it matters scince he only used two bolts and the holes dont line up anyway. He mentioned something about that after he did the first side and he even said he was going to drill a hole for the third bolt but he never did.

You can see the notches he made on the tops of the spring plates. Some more hacking of my parts. Look at the left side....how the hell was that notch suppose to work?! If that deosnt prove this guy is an idiot then I dont know what deos.