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Tue Nov 30, 2004 9:53 pm

I'm thinking there may be wayyyyy to much opinion involved in this question but maybe I'm wrong. Is there a best year super? I'm trying to get myself educated about these little cars.
If the typical rules I have learned about old cars apply, It pays to buy a car that someone else has done the brunt of the restoration work to. I have some skills. I'd like to learn.
The truth is, I'd like to get a bug that needs some restoration work but not a rust bucket. I think I want a project car, but the more I look though the adds, the less I am attracted to the project cars.
I'm babbling.
Is there a best year to work with? I'm not that interested in stock. I'd like the biggest engine that fits within reason. Is that a 1900? I can't see the benefit of a standard other than parts availability. Is this a huge issue with the supers?
Thanks and I'm sorry if this is a controversial question. :shock:

Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:36 am

the latest year you can, 1975. Should have the best components being the newest model, right? But it doesn't really matter, as long as whatever car you get is in good condition and no more work than you can afford in time and money.

I have a '73 Super and did a half-ass cheapo resto (best I could afford at the time) on it, and I absolutely love the car. Best vehicle I've ever owned, glad I fell into it.

Unlike you, with some knowledge of what to look for and an idea of what you want, I lucked into a fairly rust-free decent condition, not-much-work-needed car. If that car had been like some others I've inspected now that I know better, I wouldn't be writing this and my VW passion would have never fired up.

Wed Dec 01, 2004 6:36 am

It's really up to you. If you like the look of the flat windshield than go with a 71-72. If you like the rounded windshield than go 73-75. Personally I think the 73-75 Supers with the "Euro" look are bad ass.

As far as engines go you can go wayyyyy bigger than 1900cc's. Using a stroker crank and 94mm pistons you can go up into the 2300cc range. How much money are you planning on spending?

Definetely go for a car that is solid and rust free. Even if you pay more for the car in the end you will save by not having to pay the bodyshop thousands of dollars to get rid of rusty panels, floor pans, etc. Ideally for you I would look for a solid car with no engine. Then you can do what you want with it. Good luck.

Wed Dec 01, 2004 6:50 am

1957, I love the rear oval window and ragtop sunroof.

Sorry :wink:

When I think of Supers, I think German Look.

Wed Dec 01, 2004 8:31 am

Thank you guy's. Good! No controversy. This is my story. It started 2 years ago and has taught me a lot. I have a 1979 911 SC Targa. I love the car. I really didn't know what I was getting into when I bought it. I read a few books and got online. I emailed some guys from the Porsche club who sort of mentored me through and sent me to the forums. I ended up getting a pretty tight little car. Many new components Motor, Tranny, Interior, all the updates. I have since rebuilt the front suspension and other assorted things I'm not going to waist the space writing about.
So... Maybe I'm going backwards but learning the history of F. Porsche has led me down the road to the Bug. I am developing a fantasy where I get a bug in my basement and figure the whole thing out. I'm not sure if I want to get into the welding part or not. I'm sure I'd be better off not.
Time is not an issue unless I die soon and if I do it is still not an issue ;)
I like the suspension of the super. I don't have any opinion about windshield shapes. But I guess in time I may.
The Porsche I own is probably the least desirable of the 911's 78-83 because they are getting old now and because they were so well built that they are easy to find, first years of galvanized bodies but weight to horsepower is a little weak.
Is the Super the same type? As far as desirability? I don't know... I don't think I care.
The answer to how much do I want to spend is still debatable.
I think I'd like a fairly rust free shell/within reason I'll rebuild mechanically, do a glass out strip to metal repaint. No rush. Let's see, my daughter is six so I need it ready in 10 years. Sooner would be better :D Then I can drive it for a while.
New Porsche parts are easy to find, Is that not the case with a Super?
How much will I spend? You guys have had this fantasy haven't you? Give me a hint...

Thanks again

Wed Dec 01, 2004 8:53 am

Check out this thread (full disclosure: I wrote it :D ):

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=79656

Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:26 am

Thanks Joe, I found that last night. Great article. That is what led me to write this. Is my question redundant? I guess it is to a degree. I know on the 911 boards people get crazy sometimes because the same questions get answered over and over. I did a few searches but wasn't getting anywhere. Its not a specific enough question.

Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:31 am

Well, I think you'll be happy to know that parts for a bug are still relatively cheap (espcially when compared to Porsche parts :shock: ).

I'd figure 2-3K for a decent Super Beetle of any year. On the east coast it might be a little harder to find a nice rust-free one.

I'd also figure $4-10,000 if you want a really hot engine(200+ HP). Then you'll need a tranny that can handle that kind of power $500-1000.

Wheels, tires,suspension $2-3K

Body, paint, interior $2-4K.

Granted these are very rough figures and just off the top of my head. I have found out during my several VW restorations that it is the little things that add up and kill you. Since you plan on doing most of the work yourself you can save a lot in labor costs. And since time is not an issue then you can search around for the best deals.

Read as much info as you can get your hands on before deciding what beetle to buy. Take an experienced VW person with you when you go to look at beetles, someone who knows them well and knows what to look for so you don't end up with a bondo-caked p.o.s.

Best of luck, I envy you, I wish I had the time and money for this kind of thing right now. Todd

Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:57 pm

I just scored a GREAT 1973 Super Beetle. I live in South Florida, and as you all know, the rust factor down here is horrible. A friend of mine had a 73' Super Beetle sitting at his house for about 5 years. It used to be his brothers ride/project, but he passed, and they just let this sit. I bought it from him on a wing and a prayer knowing that this thing might not work. The first thing my boyfriend did was to do basic maintenance to it. Change the oil, spark plugs, etc.... As soon as he went to drain the oil, there was about a gallon of water in the engine, :shock: and the engine was hydrolocked. Aparently, the water had been leaking in through a really rusted out carburator over the years, and just sat in the engine. I got it all cleaned out, and on the first couple of tries puttered a little. Then it started and this HUGE cloud of smoke came out of it, and it would putter out again. It's finally gotten to the point where it'll start without puttering out, but the idle still isn't perfect. It's still being worked on though. The amazing part about this little guy, is that there is like no rust. There a bit on the drivers side heater channel, and a bit on one of the quarter panels, but nothing major, and nothing that can't be taken care of with a little bit of work.

We bought the car for $400, and if we've put $300 into it to get it running, it's too much. This little guy is turning out to be a dream for me. I've always wanted a vintage VW, and now I have one, and I can't wait to get it on the road again.

My boyfriend, who is not a huge believer in VW's has had a change of heart with these guys but won't admit to it. He has done nothing but work on the car, and won't let me touch it. He talks about it with all his friends and brags about how good it's coming along in such a short amount of time. We literally had to drag this guy out of it's spot at my friends house on Friday because the breaks were locked, we started work on it on Saturday, and by Monday it was running on it's own. It should be on the road by next week, if he keeps working on it the way he has been.
:D

Wed Dec 01, 2004 4:46 pm

Hey supergirl, If you find another one let me know ;)
I saw a red convertible on my way to Myrtle Beach the day before Thanksgiving. It was in like a 10 bay collapsing storage barn next to a tractor and a bunch of old rusted farm junk. I drove by and thought it might be worth investigating. On the way home I was going to stop and see if I could find someone or at least leave a note. But to my chagrin... The whole field had been cleared and leveled for some new construction project. Everything was gone but the dirt!
Talk about a day late and a dollar short!

Wed Dec 01, 2004 4:57 pm

72 super is the best in my book

Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:09 pm

VWGirl wrote: 72 super is the best in my book
Why? Is that too personal a question? :p
And Todd, thanks for the breakdown. I think I am developing a game plan of sorts.
I like this, There are no girls on the Porsche boards...

Wed Dec 01, 2004 6:56 pm

For me, I like the '73 and later. Curved windshield, elephant foot tail lights, big dash. It's easy to mod the front suspension on Supers to make a great handling car. IMO the best would be a '75 Super sedan. It has rack and pinion steering, larger rear apron to help hide exhaust system, lol.
I found my '73 in great condition...very little rust, and it's straight. I'm building up a 2165cc motor which should be pretty quick. Expecting 185 to 190 hp (according to engine analyzer software) but we'll see once it's on the dyno! 8)

Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:12 pm

porschebug911 wrote: VWGirl wrote: 72 super is the best in my book
Why? Is that too personal a question? :p
And Todd, thanks for the breakdown. I think I am developing a game plan of sorts.
I like this, There are no girls on the Porsche boards...

71/72 have the flat windshield and longer hood, looks more like a standard beetle bt it's got struts... 72 has the late model collapsible steering column + but has the late model steering wheel- but the wheel is easily replaced. the 72 has a larger rear windshield than the 71 and has the four sets of vents in the decklid as opposed to the two on the 71...

really i like the 71's too, but 72 is my fav, i like the bigger rear window and i do notice the diff.

i have 1303's as well... the benefit to them is the seats are interchangeable with watercooled cars more so than the earlier years.

Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:47 pm

Gotta go with a 73 Convertible! Why? That's what I drive and I love it.

Most of the parts for a Super are available, the tough ones seem to be things like dashboard components, and some front end body parts - though you can find them. I don't think you would have any difficulty finding the parts you need. Just put a post on here and you'll have plenty people tell you where you can find things.

Some people will tell you that a super isn't a beetle and is less desirable. It is...and it isn't. Its its own special thing (not to be confused with the Thing). Its a beetle at its heart (it rusts in the same areas, has the air cooled engine, the round fenders, etc.) but it has its own character too. I love bugs be they supers or standards, pre or post 67, IRS or Swing - it doesn't matter.

Fri Dec 03, 2004 4:50 pm

Supers as we all know were made from 71 thru 79 Model years in sedans and later in convertible form only. My point is that even the latest Super is 24 years old. Condition of the car, not the year should be your determining factor, but be that as it may, from a modern engineering point of view the later the Super the better (almost). Here my subjective rating of Super Beetle years:

1972 The Best
'72 Supers where the best VW's ever built.
Biggest most powerful Engine, 4 vent engine cover, Flat collapsible Steering wheel & column.
Flat windshield so it's lighter than the '73 & up models.

1971 The Best, almost
'71 Model year was the first year, Almost the Best, almost but not quite as good as a '72.

1973 Early & Late, "Cool for daily use"
Here is a VW usual deal. early 73's got curved windows big ugly tail lights.
Late 73's got all that plus "Negative Kingpin Axis Steering".

1975-1980 Where the term "Fat Chick was defined"
These guys are technically superior to every beetle ever built, but 20+ year old fuel injection can be a pain if you live in Ca. The downer is they also the heaviest with fuel injection, rack & pinion steering, and 5 mph bumpers. Amazingly parts are not that hard to find for these girls. I have a '78 convertible so I guess I'm dating a fat chick & liking it.

1974 "The Fat Chick nobody wants to date"
'74 is the "67" of the super beetle range with none of the advantages.
They are full of one year only parts like the EGR & Heat raiser mess on the engine, and the 74 only bumper assemblies.

Fri Dec 03, 2004 7:15 pm

I have to say that I like the 71 & 72 also. With the 1600DP and the 71+ trans axle Its a great running car, even stock. Not that I am promoting stock, I personally like performance, but my budget says mild stock. I still love the look of the classic bug, but to find a nice early model can be trying, both on your patience and wallet. It can be alot easier to find a super in good shape that can be restored with a smaller budget. You still have the option of old skool or the euro look, both of which look great. Some people rag on them because of the struts and the super shimmy, but after rebuilding the front end and dropping it about 4 inches in the nose it rides and handles great(mine). There are a few good sites that provide a good source of parts and tech info on the supers, one of them being topline parts and of course thesamba :D . I know of some more, but right now I am drawing a blank. Anyway, its all about the bug. What ever you find, have fun. Peace!

Sat Dec 04, 2004 4:38 pm

Thanks to everyone who replied.
I looked at a couple of cars today, then went to the bookstore and purchased a bug performance upgrade and an engine rebuild book. That should keep me asking questions. I have also come to some conclusions. The flat windshield and the smaller tail lights are in my opinion more of a classic bug look.
If I do restore a bug I'll have more time and money in the restoration than I will in the purchase so I need to choose wisely. I'm thinking 71 or 72. Flat windshield/small tail lights.
What were the first years super beetles came in convertible?
Are bug convertibles much less rigged than coups?
If so, has it caused any structural problems as the cars mature?
I guess if I found a convertible good I could live with the big tail lights.

Sun Dec 05, 2004 10:05 am

71 was the first year of the super...

the convertibles have reinforcement... don't know which is better... i would go for a vert myself...

Sun Dec 05, 2004 8:42 pm

sorry for my ignorance
Quote: "The Beetle convertible after 1970 was based on the Super Beetle." Does that mean all years Super Beetles came in a vert version?
Is that what you said VWGirl?