TheSamba.com :: View topic - Ideas on reproducing the gold finish on NOS Case??

Wed Dec 15, 2004 3:43 pm

Hi guys, I have an NOS 36 hp case that needs the gold finish on it reproduced. Do you guys know of a way to do this? I underdstand that the product on it is called DOW #7. There is a place in town that does this but they said they couldn't make the finish as light gold as what is there. It would be dark brown not light gold. Any help would be greatly appreciated,
Peter

Wed Dec 15, 2004 4:18 pm

try this guy his name is Joe Ruiz he does this on the engines he builds i have seen him advertise on the samba before

mrokrasa@earthlink.net

Wed Dec 15, 2004 4:32 pm

Here is a case I received from Joe Ruiz a bit ago.

Wed Dec 15, 2004 7:32 pm

i heard if you get the gold treatment, the case will have to be linebored??

Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:00 pm

The case is powdercoated a light gold color. You will have to line bore the case IF you oven the case higher than 350 degrees. This will distort very slightly the main bearing Journals. If you can keep the Temp. down around 275--300 degrees when ovening the case then there should be no problem with the Main bearing issue.

Thu Dec 16, 2004 6:23 am

The coating does cover the inside of the case also which made me slightly uncomfortable especially with the cam and lack of bearings. I was assured that it would not be problem.

-Craig

Thu Dec 16, 2004 6:55 am

Eric Outland wrote: The case is powdercoated a light gold color. You will have to line bore the case IF you oven the case higher than 350 degrees. This will distort very slightly the main bearing Journals. If you can keep the Temp. down around 275--300 degrees when ovening the case then there should be no problem with the Main bearing issue.

So, we're not reproducing the original gold finish, we're just simulating the original finish with modern powdercoating? You lose me there. Powdercoating the inside of the case for purely cosmetic purposes seems to be introducing a foreign substance into the engine for no good reason.

Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:55 am

To simulate the original gold finish you would have to retro back to the fifties to Wolfs burg through a time worp continueum--Why Anyone in there right mind would want to powdercoat the inside of a perfectly good Case is beyond me! Perhaps that is where cominsince and duct tape and news paper comes to play to protect the inside of the case ( Throwing it in the trash when Finished--before the oven processs comes to play) , :roll: and protect the inside of the case when shooting Gold powder on the outside! Done-it did-it works good use your Brain! :roll:

Thu Dec 16, 2004 9:28 am

the color on my case shown above is NOT powder coating. You don't want to powder coat the engine case because it will kill your cases ability to dissapate heat.

The coating on my case shown above is a 3M process... I would assume it is some form of a 'pickleing' solution and not done electrochemical. I could be wrong. Anyway, it is supposed to be the same or very close process at that used back in the 50's

Thu Dec 16, 2004 9:58 am

There is a Trick on how to do the powder on the case. You do not coat the Case completely with a Thick Coat. It is a Light--and i stress a very light coat of Eastwoods Translucent Gold Powder coating. When you have Lightly covered the case and Electicly Ovened the Case for 25-40 minutes at 275-300 degrees F. What you have is a durable none chipping Gold original coating that looks as original if not Better than what rolled off The factory assy. line in Germany. However the trick is Putting on just the Right amount and not to Imulsify the case in Gold Powder.

As far as the heat issue is concerned i personally have never had any of my 36hp cases heat up over 245 Degrees with this treatment done to (VMR) motors. And my customers have not complained about any chipping or heating problems.

Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:02 am

Couldn't you just tint some shellac with a little gold and get the same effect? I mean, it burns off in 100 miles anyway. White shellac and varnish both have an natural amber tint right out of the can.

Isn't it just an anti corrosion material like cosmoline to protect the case in storage? Are we sure that it actually started life gold, or did the clear cosmoline/whatever just turn that color over the years? If you took a case and sprayed a light coat of waxoyl on it and put it in the sun for 3 weeks you might get the same effect.

Thu Dec 16, 2004 11:43 am

This is very thin and bonds with the metal. My near NOS 36 case had some of this coating from the factory. So it did orginally come this way. The DOW coating does correctly mimick the look and 'may' even be the same process that was used orginally. This will last longer than the 100 miles that someone here claimed but it certianly is not a forever coating. I would guess that it would last a few years before discoloring, time will tell.

-Craig

Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:47 pm

It would be nice if one of you guys who know Joe could ask him on here to clear up a few questions about his service. I have heard it is a chemical coating from his friends in the aerospace industry, but I don't know. My question would also be do you have to line bore etc. I have an extra NOS case I would not mind having treated as well as a few good used one if the price is fair. I will say I would not powder coat my case.

Sat Dec 18, 2004 12:01 am

A while back I worked in an Aerospace manufacturing plant...all of the aluminum and magnesiun parts were ran through a coveyer and came out the other end looking just like the case in the pictures. It is not powder coating it is closer to anodizing.

If my memory is correct it is called "Gold Iridite". I once did an intake for a small block chevy and it looked goldish like anodizing but much more transparent.

Take a look at the link number 22 1A
Just my two cents.

John
http://www.accuratescrew.com/info/finishes.htm

Sat Dec 18, 2004 12:35 am

John wrote: A while back I worked in an Aerospace manufacturing plant...all of the aluminum and magnesiun parts were ran through a coveyer and came out the other end looking just like the case in the pictures. It is not powder coating it is closer to anodizing.

If my memory is correct it is called "Gold Iridite". I once did an intake for a small block chevy and it looked goldish like anodizing but much more transparent.

Take a look at the link number 22 1A
Just my two cents.

John
http://www.accuratescrew.com/info/finishes.htm

Good clue there John.

Here's a few answers on how to duplicate this finish that I found on the web:

From a Sailboat website (I guess the sailboat guys use it for corrosion protection):

Quote: I've had some limited exposure to the Alodine you ask about. There are many names for it, including gold iridite. I found a product at the local automotive paint store made by Dupont, although many others make a similar product. It's called an aluminum prep #226S, step 1 and step 2. The first step is an aluminum brightener(acid). The second is a chromate....look out for the cyanide! You will be instructed to wipe on and rinse off. If this is a large project, I caution you, you will be using some hazardous and controlled chemicals. Not wise to rinse off on the ground. As with any paint job, prep is the key to success. The old paint must be completely stripped before this process will work for you. If its small parts, you should be ok. If not, I'd look for some commercial help. Good luck.

Quote: Try your local Automotive Paint and Body supply stores - I know at least a couple of our local suppliers stock it. It is typically supplied in small quantities as 'Alodine 1200s', which is a liquid concentrate used for brush-alodine application. CAREFUL, though... It contains hexavalent chromium, ferricyanides and fluorides. Keep it off of yourself and catch & dispose of waste properly...

And from a Studebaker website:

Quote: I used duplicolor anodize paint in yellow which I got at a local auto parts store- and it's a little bit more yellow then the original orangish tint-- BUT-- only we stude fanatics would notice I guess the paint is translucent and seems to be very tuff-- and the more coats you use the darker it gets I also did the *S* in my 55 grille which I had gold plated but the guy screwed the job up and it looks awesome over the gold he put on it sure beats putting *gold* paint on them because its transparent- and doesn't seem to chip or peel off like normal paint would

I also see a lot of uses other than gold hubcap centers too. For instance-- if you wanted to make something look like gold iridite ( horn relay i.e) a quick thin coat of this stuff would do that too Duplicolor sells an aluminum underbase paint for things like that-- plus blue and red of course I likeeeee ittttt!! Go buy some lol I can take a pic if you want but I can't post them to the newsgroup Jim

Sat Dec 18, 2004 12:39 am

I can't wait to see all the new restorations with that crap all over the motors now. Thanks Coad. :roll:

Sat Dec 18, 2004 12:48 am

53 0val wrote: I can't wait to see all the new restorations with that crap all over the motors now. Thanks Coad. :roll:

Well, the the cyanide prep and the "hexavalent chromium, ferricyanides and fluorides" might actually reduce the competition at next year's shows.

At the very least there won't be as many little kids running around after Daddy paints all that junk on the case. "Vasectomy in a Can" seems to be the proper name for that stuff.

Sat Dec 18, 2004 12:53 am

coad wrote: 53 0val wrote: I can't wait to see all the new restorations with that crap all over the motors now. Thanks Coad. :roll:

Well, the the cyanide prep and the "hexavalent chromium, ferricyanides and fluorides" might actually reduce the competition at next year's shows.

At the very least there won't be as many little kids running around after Daddy paints all that stuff on the case. "Vasectomy in a Can" seems to be the proper name for that stuff.

Why stop there? We could bring back the old German "mercury-fire gild".
Then only "Mad Hatters" would show cars. :D

Sat Dec 18, 2004 8:23 am

gee, I always heard Joe Okrassa worked in an aerospace plant, hmm.

Sat Dec 18, 2004 9:24 am

I tried asking Joe thru e-mails at one time this last year--about the gold color on the cases. I never recieved a reply back!

I worked for Northrop Grumman Aerospace for the better part of 14 years in the production and development Dept. of the 747 Fuselage program As an Aerospace Tech. The processs that is Discribed above is a Anodized chemical etching that goes on aluminum or Magnesium before Zinc chromate or any other Paint -- the part then Gets wiped(to nuetralize the effects of etching) of with water and then You Must paint or coat the Part with a Protective coating if not the part will literally over time Rust away, this gives the metal--the effect of a golden color.

I have Used Gold Translucent Powder coating from Eastwood. Putting a very very Light coat on the case then Ovened as discribed above and the case come out looking Factory Fresh. You can do dow coating--however its expensive and Powder is less and will give you the same result. See above Posting for Process. I described the process that I thoght Joe Ruiz was useing to get the gold color on his Cases, emailed him about it and again I never recieved a reply.--I guess Trade secrets are something Joe does not want to discuss. Hope this can be of some help.