Need help--Cont. saga..No oil pressure!!

[ppjasper]

or; IS IT THE RELIEF VALVES OR THE PUMP?!

I'm still confused about pressure relief valves. I thought they were about oil pressure at all levels, not just idle. Someone says it's definitely the valves, another says no. I wish I could get a solid answer.

Finally hooked up mechanical oil pressure gauge at sending unit hole. It showed about 12 lbs at start up then went down to zero...

Here's what we're working with again:

Stock 1641 Dual port
34 Pict 3
New Brazilian Alum. case
New crank
almost new stock cam
new cam, rod bearings
New 87 jugs/pistons/rings
almost new rods
almost new oil pump
not new pressure release springs/valves
external oil cooler


I have been driving it around town. It does not heat up. The light goes out at higher rpm, comes back on at lower and idle after warm up. Except for
once, I took it on the freeway for abut 10 minutes & the light came on again. I was doing about 55. Am I seriously damaging this engine by driving it? What's getting oiled & what isn't?

There is no trace of metal in the drained oil, just the usual sludge, so I don't think theres a problem with bearings being off or spinning etc. I had a shop tell me too to use only single weight oils. (This is in the desert) I have taken out pump twice, it seemed fine and spin marks on the cover proved it. But maybe NOW it's broken. I hear the end tabs have been known to break. I'll probably pull it again.

So WHAT is it? What's "not happening"?

Please help...thanx

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[mharney]

Have you pulled them out and inspected the sealing surfaces on the bores, and made sure that the pistons are going down into the bore all the way?

[ppjasper]

How would I know?? That would be good. It occured to me to ask out there who might know the measurements of the bores, with the piston in; base of piston to the orifice lip..? Anyone?

Yes, I sanded one smooth to be sure, where as the other actually was manufactured with some indentation (round wise like piston)...now mind you, I did not have pressure problems with these on last case they were in...!

ps I've done some flat-end-bore tooling in bores as per other forums here..
maybe I need to do more..how do I know when it's enough?
_________________
NOW
69 Rag Top Westy >>FOR SALE
61/67 Bug >>FOR SALE
88 Volvo 240 DL
55 Chevy 1st series pick-up

THEN
63 Bug
55 Bug Rag Top (wish I had this one back!)
64 Bug
65 Westy (a better car than the 69)
55 Pontiac Starchief
55 Chevy 2 Dr Wagons (two)
54 Chevy
55 Chevy Panel
56 Chevy
51 Chevy

[FASTERFRED]

Yes the pressure relief valves control pressure at all RPM levels ....If there is not enought oil pressure to keep the light out, about 3 to 6 psi, the valve has nothing to work with to control and either the pump is bad (fit to the case/gear to gear/ gear to case/wrong pump/restricted pump inlet, maybe at thepickup), or there is a massive internal leak which doesn't allow the pressure to build up.....In your dual relief case, the rear valve controls the oil going either directly to the main gallery or to the oil cooler and then to the main gallery depending on the oil weight becoming thicker or thinner with the engine cold or hot....The front (flywheel end) relief valve (non grooved piston and short spring) controls the overall pressure in the system, allowing bypass when it is too high....That's why in a new engine with good bearings and a good pump with low oil pressure, the first place to looking is the front relief valve not seating properly....Depth it should go into the bore?...Different on every engine +/- maybe a 1/8 at most depending on machining....Measure the dept of the front relief well, put in the piston without the spring, pushing with a stick and mark the depth...The total depth compared to the piston plus stick length should tell the tale if in all the way in or not.....In facing the relief seats, you just have to clean them up to bore size, should be able to see if it's right with a light and your eye....We are only talking less then a 1/16 max and really much less....Should be able to feel the cutter running smoothly with a little pressure on it....Multiweight oil (15/40 or 20/50 for me) is the way to go, seems to give better overall pressure at all temperatures.....Hope this helps.... ....The Lizard....

[james caste]

You said you have an external oil cooler? Is the pump you are running plugged on the return side as if you were running a full flow oiling system. If not then this could be your loss of pressure as the oil would not be taking the correct route anymore. Also your pump may not be putting out enough force to plumb an extra cooler, thats alot more lines to pump and such. Hope this helps.
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[ppjasper]

I'm using an oil-cooler-bypass setup. Pump is 30 mm. I pulled it again today, I'm sure it's working, although the drive gear has been etching the cover more than I've seen before. (?)

The inlet and outlet holes on pump and block match. I get oil out of the sending unit hole when it's idling.

I pulled the front (by flyweel) pressure valve, and peered up the hole with a light. I've never looked up there before now so not sure what I'm supposed to see. At base of bore, there seems to be a lip or ridge the entire circumference of bore, only part of the lip is missing...

beyond the "lip" it looks to be about 2/3 metal, and about 1/3 opening to oil galley (?) I'm no artist but here's what I saw...

I dunno--I should probably admit defeat and tear it down again-- F...!
I think I got ripped off on the new case deal..jus unlucky I guess
_________________
NOW
69 Rag Top Westy >>FOR SALE
61/67 Bug >>FOR SALE
88 Volvo 240 DL
55 Chevy 1st series pick-up

THEN
63 Bug
55 Bug Rag Top (wish I had this one back!)
64 Bug
65 Westy (a better car than the 69)
55 Pontiac Starchief
55 Chevy 2 Dr Wagons (two)
54 Chevy
55 Chevy Panel
56 Chevy
51 Chevy