66-67 front end versus 68-77 front end

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What is the difference in a 66-67 front end and a 68-77?

One of the main differences that I've seen in parts catalogs is the tie rods. The reason I ask this because of the following:

At one company, I can purchase "wide five" front disk brakes for a 66-67 (ball joint) or for a 68-77 (ball joint) standard beetle; however if I choose to lower the front end using CB Performance dropped spindles, I can not use the "wide five" disk brake kit on my '67.

Another company offers "wide five" disk brake kits for standard beetles with the exception of the 66-67.

If the only difference is the tie rods, can I convert my '67 front end to a '68 so I can use dropped spindles with "wide five" disk brakes?

Thanks

[keifernet]

I think this is what you call "falling through the cracks" 66 and later are ball joint beams the "tie rod end" change yoou refer to actually occured as a mid year change in 68.... the tapered shank size of the tie rod ends went from skinny(early) to Fat....
and the wheel bearing sizes changed at the same time also.... the beams and all are the same, it was in reality a "spindle" change as they have both the hole for the tie rod ends and the spindle the bearings ride on.....
Your delima... as I beleive it exists, is that there are disc brake kits for the early -65 wide 5 pattern but they are for LINK PIN front ends/spindles and do not work on the 66-67( which even though they are 5 lug drums they are BALL JOINT style spindles...)
I may very well be mistaken though and I'm sure there is a way around the problem... but I see what your getting at... and the way your thinking of solving it, I don't think will help....
I hope someone else will come along and enlighten us both.... good luck!

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Thank you for replying.

Yes, hopefully someone will come along and enlighten me as you appear to be pretty well enlightened already.

Taking your information, I summarized it as follows:

The beam is the same.
The torsion arms are the same.
The spindle is different.
The tie rods are different.

Now, to ease problems caused by the mid year change in '68, I will refer to using '69 parts.

I should be able to do the following:

Keep the same beam and torsion arms.

Replace the tie rods with those from a '69 (possibly only having to replace the outside tie rod ends as per CB Performance).

Use the dropped CB Performance spindle for a '66 and later with disk brakes.

Use the bearings and seals from a '69.

Finally, installing the "wide 5" disk brakes that I've been wanting.

Thanks again.

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Imagine what a tech/sales person from one of these major companies could do to enlighten me while offering up the parts that I would need to make this change.

CB Performance?
So Cal Imports?
Rocky Mountain Motorworks?
Are you out there?

Hehehe.....

[keifernet]

"Use the dropped CB Performance spindle for a '66 and later with disk brakes."

"Finally, installing the "wide 5" disk brakes that I've been wanting"

This is the part I am not positive on.... I don't know if the wide five components will work on "Ball joint spindles" Like I said... This is the part I am not positive on.... I don't know if the wide five components will work on "Ball joint spindles" I would think there is some combination but like you say thehy don't specifically seem to list a kit for the 66-67?????

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So Cal Imports has a "wide 5" disk brake kit for ball joint front ends (except 66-67) that mounts on the existing ball joint spindles. This was confirmed in the September issue of Hot VW's and I believe the August issue of VW Trends. While both magazines list that the "wide 5" will work with the 66-67, I called So Cal Imports and was quickly informed that it would not work on the 66-67 but would work on '68 and later (excluding earlier '68's).

CSP (no part number listed), Rocky Mountain Motorworks (part number VC17003), and The Real Source (part number 318-029) sells a "wide 5" disk brake kit for the 66-67 ball joint Beetles (same brand of brakes for all).

CSP (no part number listed), The Real Source (part number 318-041), and Rocky Mountain Motorworks (part number VC17005) also sells a set of "wide 5" disk brakes that will mount on CB Performance dropped ball joint spindles, but only '68 and later (excluding earlier '68's and is the same brand of brakes for all).

Therefore, I'm confident that the "wide 5" disk brakes will work on '68 and newer ball joint spindles and supposedly CB Performance dropped spindles.

Apparently the reason for the exemption of the 66-67 is due to the outer tie rod ends.

Therefore, this just brings me back to the tie rod issue.

[keifernet]

Okay that makes sense... they do make somthing to work but I guess you need the later syle tie rod ends or???? Iguess I got lost in the thread somewhere... LOL!Sorry for all the extra babbling BS. I was a bit confused on exactly what you were getting at????

[Wademcgee]

Here is the deal, just went thgough it with my 67 vert. The two parts that you must change for compatiblity is the outer tie rod end, and the outer wheel bearing. The 66-67 outer wheel bearing (the one closest to the spindle) is too small, and the early tie rod ends are too skinny. I can also tell you that you should do the complete CB performance kit all at once. The spindles that CB sells alone are not the same as the ones that come with the complete Wide 5 disc brake kit. $699.99 for the whole kit is quite a deal. The CSP kit will work with most spindles, but the brakes alone start at 995.00. Lastly, keep in mind that going to disk brakes widens your front end by as much as 1 1/2", so if clearance is an issue purchase a narrowed beam. I got mine from KYMCO and they were killer. Hope this all helps.
Regards,
Wade

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No problem. Thanks for your interest. By breaking it down during this conversation, I think it makes sense now and I think I will be able to make the conversion necessary to install the "wide 5" brakes that I've wanted.