Vin number question

[HippieBus]

I will try to keep this short. I have read most of the postings about vin issues where there is no title. Here is the deal, I have three Ghias. The two that are my parts cars (massive rust) both have clean Vins and I have the Titles. The car that I need to restore has no title and the guy I bought it from got it from a guy that took it as a lien from a dead beat. The Lein taker (mechanic) never got it registered or titled in his name, just sold it to this other guy for 500 and that guy sole it to me for 500. All of that took place in a matter of 3 months. So, although it appears that I could do a lean thing like some mention, or I could jump through paper work hoops to get it registered in another way, since I am doing a complete resto (pans, Motor, body, etc, why not just CUT the vin out of my other car and weld it real nice into the resto car? There will be gluded down floor padding all around the area with only the vin on the top showing just like the factory. I also have all of the mathing trunck tags. Seems like with all the cutting and swapping of body parts changing out that section of the pan is not unreasonable.

Bottom line, is there ANY way for anyone to tell if I weld in a new vin and have the matching chasis plate as well both of which match a perfectly clean title in my name? Who would even question it? How could it ever come back to bite me?

[beetleluvr]

Quick lesson....against forum rules to post same subject in more than one forum. Look out for the dreaded lock..
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[HippieBus]

Sorry, new to forum and put the first one in the wrong place. Can I delete the first one?

[KGCoupe]

[joe comfort]

Sounds like a Vin Switch to me, a big no no. If you have to get your vehicle inspected for registration purposes and a curious inspector feels the need to remove the floor padding (which they can) you are SOL if they detect a Vin Switch. When I hear Vin Switch I think of stolen car. They probably will too. Then the car is confiscated for evidence and you find yourself in front of Judge Maria Lopez!

Check with your DMV and explain you only have a bill of sale and see what hoops you will have to jump through. You did get a bill of sale right?

[kingkarmann]

Unless you have a criminal backround, no one is going to give a second look at your vin#. No worries
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[HippieBus]

No creiminal record. I have a bill of sale...only
What if you had rust on the tunnel and replaced the tunnel with another rustfree tunnel. If anyone asked I could even show that the vin section I put on it was froom a car I owned outeight and that I have a legal bill of sale for the "parts" remianing.

I will check with the DMV on Tuesday.

Thanks!

[Gary]

Why not just swap the body onto the legal pan? That's done all of the time with Beetles and Ghias.
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[HippieBus]

Legal pan is bad. Pan it is on is good.

[70 140]

I wouldn't screw around with doing what you are suggesting. What will you do when you sell it? Neglect to tell the new owner that you have cut and pasted the vin?

Either get it legally figured out, or swap the pans and do the repairs to the bad pan.

Hopefully you do the responsible thing.

[jason_hamilton]

This is just my opinion, but the VIN is the essence of the car. By swapping the VIN section from a crappy car into another good car, you are essentially just replacing absolutely every possible part on the crappy car. You're not doing anything underhanded, or anything that would violate the spirit of the law (if not the letter), so in my mind you are proposing a perfectly sensible and legal thing to do.

If in doubt, though, you should seek expert advice from your local DMV to see if you'd actually be violating the law in your area.
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The Online Karmann Ghia Resource

[HippieBus]

True. Believe me I am an honest guy that would not seek to break the law. I own all three cars legally. There is no dispute. However, the "Bill of sale car" has a problem. I talked to the guy that sold it to me and he said he would write me a certified letter claiming the history of the title and explaining how I am the legal owner. Now if I go to the DMV with 2 titles in my name and a certified bill of sale for the third, they check the vin on it and see that it is NOT a stolen car, and still will not title it...then that just seems very wrong...even to a very honest guy. We shall see....

Thanks

[iowegian]

[Flush_GHia]

About 5 years later but i just want to say for anyone who wants to do a vin switch, do it, if you an honest buyer of a car that has no title and have a clean vin on a beat up pan just cut and past, after grinding, bondo, and paint who would ever know. The main vin is on the pan, on my bug and two ghias only the pan was checked. on of those ghias i did cut off the vin to put on a 3rd ghia i picked up without a title. So far all has went well.

[Teeroy]

Whatever you think is right or wrong with cutting and pasting VIN, It is a felony!!!!!!!!!! You don't want to get caught
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[John Moxon]

Teeroy is absolutely correct!

The Samba in no way supports this illegal activity.
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The VW Judson Register
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[Flush_GHia]

Sorry fellow samba members, i took some time to gain more knowledge on vin swaps and there in fact is explicit hype on how illegal it is. When i did this i just looked at it as if i was saving a whole lot of money not building around a good vin. So sorry for the immature post, im a young VW owner with a lot to learn.

[John Moxon]

Yep sorry to seem heavy handed but it's important not to give bad advice on these matters.
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The VW Judson Register
My '58 Karmann Ghia
1958 Karmann Ghia Postcard Now Available
If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

[gotitforfree70]

to keep good "Karma" on your side...I suggest do it the "right" way. I was given my Ghia for free. With no bill of sale. It just happened to be on my "property". Here in California I put a lien sale thru the DMV, for $5 they checked for current owners...none. I filled out the lien sale paperwork and had a lien sale 30 days later for the "storage fees" due.
No one came to buy it so I kept it and got a tiltle for it. Still had to tow it down to DMV for "VIN" verification...but I got plates and a Ghia for $5 to begin with.

[bobnorman]

Not meaning to be a feces agitator, but are there clear cut rules on how much replacement is too much? I mean if one were to build a car with just a chunk of the tunnel containing the original chassis number, and a few body parts would that really be just a number swap?

According to this discussion then would this car be considered original?

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3...;start=760

Make no mistake, having read all 201 pages, I know that this car is what it claims to be, however, when it came to the chassis, they did just that: got a different chassis (albeit for a VW38) and welded in the remaining original bit with the number on it, you can see the section next to the replacement chassis in the pic halfway down.