Type 1 VW motor (New Case)

jeff denham · Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:40 pm Post subject:

yes i do like what they have done with the aluim blocks today (autolinya) they are still along the line of oem stock premitive enginerd parts compared to other ones wich makes for lots of fidiling. JD.

Terry Cloyd · Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:46 pm Post subject:

stoneloco808 · Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:06 pm Post subject:

In my opinion creating something like the Pauter Big Block without the large price tag would be perfect for the weekend racer and/or engine builder. Let me explain in one scenario, pulling the engine, unbolting the top cover, then unbolting the con rod caps, unbolting then popping off 4 main bearing caps... All of this work just to check the condition of the bearings. Swapping parts would be a bit easier. The other scenrio would be draining the oil, remove the oil pan to get an easy access to the cam and or lifters. In my opinion, these tasks would be possible with out actually removing the heads or cylinders.

I remember seeing a V4 at the SEMA show one year, I think it was in the Scat booth.

Jimmy111 · Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:52 am Post subject:

Hi Eric
Could you make me a quick drawing of what you are thinking ? Putting more parts into the mold is not a problem. the issue is with machining the surfaces of the mating halfs. I could cast it so no machining is necesary and use a teflon insert for a seal...
Thanks.
Jim

Eric_S · Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:20 am Post subject:

Terry Cloyd · Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:14 pm Post subject:

[quote="Jimmy111"]Thanks Nick.
4" bore is no problem but need to relocate the oil cooler return line that is between the cylinders.

I already thought of lowering the cam 1/2" and the addition of a removable oil pan so cam and lifters could be changed without teardown.
Also it can be changed to accept a 100mm stroke and still fit.

Oil filter mount?

What about the heads?

How much thicker on the lifter bores?

Jimmy you need to think about the center main bearing and build both case and crank

Eric_S · Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 12:19 am Post subject:

Jimmy111,

Here is a first round sketch of the steel insert I was envisioning:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I'd like to come up with a better means of interlocking the two halves to completely control movement between them.
_________________
--
Eric_S

What are all these extra parts?

Take a look: http://cma-vw.com/ - Cool stuff for your Volkswagen.

http://eswebs.com

Jimmy111 · Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:22 am Post subject:

Hi Eric. Do you want the inserts where I marked it on the drawing? Are they subsurface and are the projections pin type and removable? Or fixed?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Jimmy111 · Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:29 am Post subject:

Terry, What is wrong with the center main?
My opinion is that the wear there is due to the AS41 mags creep factor and low temp rating. By substituting the AS-41 with WE-43 or WE-54 it will solve the problem Max temp of AS-41 is only 300F degrees. WE-43 is good to 550F or so. There is tremendous heat genereted in that bearing saddle when the motor is hotrodded.
What is your reasioning for changing the crank?

[quote="Terry Cloyd"]

SRP1 · Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:12 am Post subject:

Jimmy111
The heat and wear is generated at the center main due to a couple reasons, the main one and most problematic is crankshaft flex. The larger type 4 center main gives the crank more rigidity. Less flex, less wear at that area of the case.
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Jimmy111 · Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:21 am Post subject:

So what you are saying is that it should be 25mm wide?
Jim

purity · Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:29 am Post subject:

Just a quick question; How much do you reckon I have to pay for this case you're making?
_________________
- '67 1300 (Original)
- '71 1302 (Daily driver, TIV-engine going in)

Jimmy111 · Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:37 am Post subject:

It will be the same of less than the price of a Mag case today. I am shooting for $500 or so

SRP1 · Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:41 am Post subject:

purity · Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 12:08 pm Post subject:

Marty Staggs · Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 12:13 pm Post subject:

Those main saddles should be cast so ther are integral with the roof of the case (hard to tell in the picture). During final machining, venting can be machined between them.
The lifters bores should be as thick as possible. Weight is not an issue but side loading is. More mass = more strength and will allow over-boring for different lifter types including rollers.
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Marty

www.M-Specmotorsports.com

[email protected]

Eric_S · Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 12:19 pm Post subject:

SRP1 · Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:09 pm Post subject:

I still feel the problem is in the crank, and as Jimmy111 has stated the material not offering adequate support. So really I don't think casting a collar into the case is any real benefit at all. Please no offense to Eric S I think you have a good idea, but we will still see hammered out center mains due to crank flex with the stock diameter center main journal. Maybe even more so with a stronger less giving case design.
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Eric_S · Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:37 pm Post subject:

No offense taken. This is an open topic where all are free to exchange ideas and opinions and I do respect yours. You've been at this for a while. Chevy mains would be great but would require a bit of development. You wouldn't be able get off-the-shelf parts like a Scat flanged crank. I don't know if they could even do that with their forging.

I agree with you partly, Steve. The crank needs to be stronger and that's why the T4 mains are a good thing. However, even with them, the #1 and #2 mains get pounded. Another problem is that the case halves moves. The steel insert is only partly for backing the bearing but more for interlocking the halves and also providing strength in the area of the main bolts so we can crank those babies down.
_________________
--
Eric_S

What are all these extra parts?

Take a look: http://cma-vw.com/ - Cool stuff for your Volkswagen.

http://eswebs.com

SRP1 · Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:43 pm Post subject:

You make a very good point. It's possible that with the added stability of the bearing a more consistent and stable hydrodynamic wedge could be maintained helping to decrease bearing wear and load. Worth a try in my book, particularly for aiding in the use of off the shelf parts.
_________________
www.srpengines.com

Bugless.......

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Type 1 VW motor (New Case)
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