RHD?

[cassa]

Hi All

A friend of mine is looking at buying a 61 ghia type 1. The car is Right Hand Drive and we are trying to establish whether it is actually Factory right hand drive which is preferable as we are in Australia and converted cars never seem to drive the same, or has it had a conversion. We are wondering if it is possible to tell from the chassis number sequence whether it is factory or not as maybe the individual numbers in the chassis number hold some relevance in this regard. We know that we could do a birth certificate search but posting on here was an easier option for now not to mention likely to give a faster answer given the enthusiast brains trust Also, what are the telltale signs of a conversion as although I am a Porsche 356 expert and can spot a conversion from 100 miles I am no ghia expert. Also, when did U.S. ghias get an external fuel filler, was it with the intro of the type 3 or did U.S. ghias of 61 vintage have an external filler? The reason I am asking all this and being a little suspicious of this car is that it has a strange fuel filler on the top left hand corner of the tank as you look into the front compartment from the front of the car. It is an internal filler which I think is correct for that year but I am not sure but what I do know is that my cousin has a 60 ghia which is Factory RHD and it's got an internal filler which is at the bottom right of the tank when looked at frome the same perspective. Sorry I dont know how to post a pic. Maybe some of you guys could post pics of 61 ghia fuel tanks or front compartments that you have seen. Thanks in advance for all responses. Cheers Michael.

[Gary]

1968 was the first year of the fuel filler door for US models. I would be surprised that European models (or others) would have had that feature for so long. As for your other questions, I am uncertain. I was told, by an Aussie, that there are only 10 or so authentic RHD Ghias in all of Oz.
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[technik]

An interesting fact i found on karmannghias.com.au

RHD Dash.

Karmann at the factory, never really had a RHD dash. The LHD dash was cut, and sides swapped, with glove box face replaced for RHD, and all welded back into place. This was done prior to the car being painted. Hence, there is not any part numbers for the RHD dash (metal portion). This is the same methods Aussies have been doing the conversions for years, who knew, they were doing it the factory way all this time.

[vwdmc16]

wouldnt it be called a type 144 or a 142 if it is a cabriolet?
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[IN2VWS]

[VW-Variant-L]

Hi,
I believe 1960 was the first model year for RHD Type 1 Karmann ghias. These came with cross over features of the earlier lowlight ghia with a smaller capacity ( ? 36 Litre) , humped fuel tank, with larger internal petrol cap, located on the drivers side ( = RHD cars = left hand side looking into the bonnet from the front).

The 1961 KG has the larger and flatter fuel tank ( 40 Litre capacity). This is similar to most of the mid-60's beetle fuel tanks in Australia, but the filler neck is on the passenger side front corner ( for RHD = right side when looking from the front). These had the hole for fuel gauge sender unit as standard, whereas many of the equivalent beetle tanks in Australia have no hole for the sender, and most later tanks have the filler neck on the driver side ( =RHD cars).

Michael, it sounds as if your cousins "1960" KG has a 1961+ fuel tank and may actually be a 1961 model ( = built after August 1960 ) as many KG's in Australia are registered with the wrong year ( It is possible to fit newer tanks into earlier cars but they don't sit properly and I've seen one which was rotated 180 degrees to fit).

It's probably best to ignore the fuel tank to determine whether it is original RHD, as so many are messed around with after they rust & leak etc.

Many early RHD conversions done in Australia used beetle glove boxes as these were easily available but a different shape ( but you can now buy reproduction sections). As IN2VWS says, the part number would have been introduced for the 1960 factory manual.

I don't believe the body or chassis numbers were designed to differentiate between RHD and LHD cars. ( Atleast I haven't seen a list available anyway).

If you look under the dash from inside the bonnet, behind the cardboard gauge cover you will probably see evidence of non- factory welding and seams, such as on the dash underside and edges as finishing this area to completely "cover-up" a conversion from behind is extremely difficult and this is probably your best bet.

Hope this helps.

[VW-Variant-L]

Just to clarify for Icy, there are atleast 200+ original RHD Type 1 Karmann ghias in Australia. Would love to know how many ( approximately) if anyone has sales figures ??

[cassa]

Thankyou Type346368. Very informative and much appreciated. I will check the sections of the car that you have mentioned especially behind the dash which I didn't check only because there did not seem to be any non factory weldings in the front compartment where the instruments poke through or for that matter where the glove box pokes through. Cheers Michael.

[sputnick60]

I bought that '66 vert that vwmark was selling last year in NM. I've imported it to Sydney, Australia and have started the process of an off the pan restoration and conversion to RHD.

I need some photos of a stock 66 RHD Ghia. I want to see what the dash should look like and how that 1 inch plasti-chrome strip is cut and how the controls are positioned. What would be extra useful would be photos of the trunk showing were the Fuse box, hood release and cable clamps should go.

Can anyone help?

Cheers
Nicholas

[myb356]

If you want to check to see if the car was factory RHD I would check the area on the firewall where the steering column should poke through to see if it ihas ever had a hole...and then I would check the area in front of the pedals for evidence of previous holes.

[sputnick60]

thanks myb356 ,

The car IS an original LHD. I'm converting it to RHD and I want to be very precise / accurate about it so it looks very close to factory RHD and avoid a hack job or mistake. KGs are worthy of respect in those matters I'm sure everyone agrees. The RHD conversion might be a sin to some but I want to enjoy the car on Australian roads. The lesser of two weevils ''

The information from "karosserie" earlier in this thread I can verify. I checked it out on my '62 coupe before I sold it. That car was a factory RHD and sure enough those welds were there, just as he described. One could only see them from the trunk (hood) side. On the passenger side it was lovely and smooth.

So I'm still interested in photos of a RHD 66, being particularly curious about the plasti-chrome strip on the dash and the exit the release cable takes on trunk (hood) lock...'cos both those are different to the '62.

Anyone?

[Broadacus]

[retrowagen]

RHD cars were inded made by Karmann in Osnabrueck from August 1959 production (known internally as Types 142 and 144).

There were some companies (two at least) in the UK who manufactured kits to 'convert' LHD Type 14's to RHD, even in the Lowlight (pre-August 1959) era. A small handful of these survive today. No RHD "lowlight" cars were 'factory' although there was a stamping for a RHD steering column on the firewall, before the RHD cars began factory production.

Some of these 1950's/1960's RHD kits incorporated an Oval-window glovebox, where the LHD instruments once lived!

Some owners of RHD's (including Jerry Heldt in Australia and John Figg in England) incorporated dash parts of later true factory RHD's in their personal conversions of their lowlight Cabriolets, from what I gather (I've seen John's in the flesh; I haven't seen Jerry's...yet). Such a fine job was done on each, it's hard to tell that it isn't 'factory.'
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Dave

[sputnick60]

Broadacus,

Not an expert? I've seen those photos on the KGOC site before.

http://www.tomholdermark.co.uk/KGOC/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27

What a wonderful restoration. Is this your workmanship? You understate yourself. ....such an Englishman I'm sure.

But what an interesting dash you've shown. I've never seen an example without the lip over the glove box and the gauges. Another curiosity are the extra holes presumably for switches, one above the ignition key and the other above the radio. These are additions. Right?

I'm still interested in seeing a photo of a RHD 66 dash but I've made the comparison between the 61 coupe I sold last month and the VW brochures of the day. The closest I could fine was the dash of a 64. Mostly the same but a mirrored image




The hood release, fresh air controls, clock & speedo are symmetrically opposite..which is a bit of a surprise for me. I was expecting the LHD controls to maintain their relative positions around the gauges. ie the Light & wiper controls on the LHS and ignition switch more in the centre. But considering the wiring loom runs down the RHS of a RHD car, there would then be only minor wiring changes between the 141/143 & 142/144 models. The wires running to the Horn relay still on the LHS and the brake pedal on the RHS are variations I immediately think of. So mirroring the dash seems to have been the most expedient way for the factory to deal with it.

I wonder what a RHD '66 dash looks like?


Nicholas

[technik]

just thought i'd ad this rhd lowlight to the post...

[sputnick60]

I've been trawling the web and finally I've found my answers. So what was the question? Well there were two of them...

Q1: What does a RHD Dash on a 66 Karman look like? What does the Plastichrome strip look like and where are the controls?


A1: It looks like this


Q2: What do they do to make up a RHD Dash. Did they really cut up a LHD Dash?

A2: It seems like they did


The weld marks are circled. This appears to be a factory conversion because a) the welding paste is still present along the join at the botton of the dash, and b) the hole for the wires to the master cylinder (brake lights) and the steering column (horns) are in the correct position for a RHD and that's just behind the fuel tank slightly to the right of centre.


So I'm a happy camper. I got it clear ....now to get the Aluminium strip made up.. Yipee!

[myb356]

[img] http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/325494.jpg
[/img] '56 RHD

[technik]

[edgemen125]

I read the RHD posts with some interest... Someone mentioned a guy in WA AUS who repros the dash trim panels....Are there any contact details for the guy?? Or even better does anyone know someone who does the same on the East coast?... Also, besides the pedal set and dash cut, is there anything else in the way of hard parts needed to do the conversion? Thanks for your feedback....

[sputnick60]

Fuse box has to be moved and the old hole patched
RHD glove box door has to be found or manufactured (see links below)
Wiring loom is either extended or re run down the other side of the car
Hole added in the frame head for the new master cylinder position
Hood release bowden tube is run on the RHS of the luggage compartment
Bonnet catch is rotated 180 degrees in it hole so the wire enters on the RHS or if you have a post '65 car you need to find a RHD style bonnet catch
Air flow controllers re cut to fit on the RHS
Some tag and clips relocated to the symmetrically opposite side

That should do it
Jerry Heldt runs a business in WA call "The Karmann Ghia Company of Australia" and does very high quality restoration work on Karmann Ghias. People send him cars from all over the world. He's that good. He makes certain parts that are otherwise unavailable or of poor quality. He has dash tops with welded vinyl edges using the same OG patttern. He can even put in the gooves like the early ones have. He also has a sheet metal kit to make up a replacement glove box lid.

http://www.karmannghia.com.au/.
http://www.karmannghia.com.au/content/part_dash%20tops.html
http://www.karmannghia.com.au/content/part_glove%20box.html


I hope that helps

Nicholas
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