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Clutches - what pressure plate with what throwout bearing
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golde60
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:31 am    Post subject: Re: Clutches - what pressure plate with what throwout bearin Reply with quote

Glenn wrote:

This is the centering ring and the late model sleeve. They do not work together.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Any questions?


Yes - the centering ring? this comes as part of the plate or the throwout bearing?
It comes attached?
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Cusser
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The centering ring is part of the clutch pressure plate. If you have the 71 & later type of throwout bearing, remove this from the pressure plate.
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krisbeetle
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hpw wrote:
wompninja wrote:
Any tricks for putting on the centering ring?


Or how to take it off? I see all the posts advising to remove the centering

ring, but not on HOW to do it. Do I need to remove the clutch from the

engine to remove the centering ring? I don't want to screw something

up never having done this before.

[img]Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.[/img]

Also I have the late style tranny with the collar, so I assume that this

collar (pictured) has to come off


I also am having difficulty removing it any tricks for taking it off and putting it back on?
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Cusser
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, that's the collar that must be removed, I did that on the pressure plate I use. Use a flat screwdriver and pry up on those springs, one at a time, enough to get an edge of the collar loose, then do the next. Leave those springs intact. See photo.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IF that's the style centering ring he's got. On the later style ( seems much more common now) diaphragm type with a collar you have to cut/bend/pry the retainer clip off the plate to get the collar off those.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the diaphragm type. What I am trying to do is take the centering ring from a junk pressure plate and put it on my good pressure plate.

so I need to remove it and essentially put it back on again without Damaging it.

I have been trying to remove but it just seems like something is gonna break.

is it even possible to put it back on again? or is it only meant to come out?
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corradolvr
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This totally just helped me. I went to put on my motor without removing the centering ring. How disappointing! Thanks for the help. That centering ring is toast!
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Question so is the T/O bearing operating shaft interchangeable from a 71 bus into a 70 bus trans??? i did not do me homework, and when i put the 71 motor in the 70 bus and trans, the T/O bearing failed, and broke one of the fingers that holds the T/O bearing on.
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amikehoover
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:24 am    Post subject: Clutch and Throwout bearing. Reply with quote

I have the early throwout bearing on my car that I bought new. The engine I purchased for my '69 bug already had the clutch installed.

It is a sachs clutch. alot differnt style then either of these two pictured in the first post. Will my throwout bearing work with this clutch cover?

I have installed the engine and have adjusted on the clutch cable but not sure how far to turn the nut. As I have someone else push in on the clutch I can see the lever move from the very start. clutch wont disengage the pressure plate. do I need to keep tightening up the cable? Thanks for any help you can give me. [url] http://cgi.ebay.com/Volkswagen-beetle-ghia-type-2-...e5cd[/url]

This ebay auction has the same cover like I have
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amikehoover
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:33 am    Post subject: Last post Reply with quote

sorry I ddin't go all the way to the last page of posts. That clutch plate above is the exact same one I have in my car. I put in the early throwout bearing. But I cann't get the clutch to engage to put the car into gear. Do I just not have my clutch cable adjusted tight enough? I know that the engine and clutch were brand new when i bought it.
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Need4Speed77
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone earlier asked if there were any tips on installing the clips on an early t/o bearing and I have the same question. Can't seem to get the damn things on. Thanks
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idan73633
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a question that I can't find the answer to, concerning my brother-in-law's project vehicle...
He has a sand rail with the "old style" transaxle (no centering collar in the TO bearing) and is trying to mate it to an engine with a "new style" diaphragm clutch (without the centering ring).
My question is this:
Can he buy an "old style" clutch kit and connect it to the "new" flywheel? are they interchangeable?
Thanks in advance!
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Cusser
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

idan73633 wrote:
I have a question that I can't find the answer to, concerning my brother-in-law's project vehicle...
He has a sand rail with the "old style" transaxle (no centering collar in the TO bearing) and is trying to mate it to an engine with a "new style" diaphragm clutch (without the centering ring).
My question is this:
Can he buy an "old style" clutch kit and connect it to the "new" flywheel? are they interchangeable?
Thanks in advance!


Yes. If the tranaxle is 1967-70 (or earlier and ground out for 200mm flywheel and 12 volt starter). It sounds like that engine without the center ring was used before with a 1971 and up transaxle, so should be 200mm, and will work with 1967-1970 with the center ring pressure plate. The flywheels are the same.
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idan73633
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cusser wrote:
idan73633 wrote:
I have a question that I can't find the answer to, concerning my brother-in-law's project vehicle...
He has a sand rail with the "old style" transaxle (no centering collar in the TO bearing) and is trying to mate it to an engine with a "new style" diaphragm clutch (without the centering ring).
My question is this:
Can he buy an "old style" clutch kit and connect it to the "new" flywheel? are they interchangeable?
Thanks in advance!


Yes. If the tranaxle is 1967-70 (or earlier and ground out for 200mm flywheel and 12 volt starter). It sounds like that engine without the center ring was used before with a 1971 and up transaxle, so should be 200mm, and will work with 1967-1970 with the center ring pressure plate. The flywheels are the same.

Awesome! Thanks!
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will park
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:14 pm    Post subject: pressure plate Reply with quote

does in matter if the pressure plates are different i switched motors and the clutch stays down now?
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After 7 pages I suppose the message gets diluted? Confused
    (1) The transmission input shaft having a sleeve (or not) will dictate which throwout (release) bearing you need to match your transmission.
    With a sleeve = later style throwout bearing
    Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
    Without a sleeve = earlier style throwout bearing
    Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

    (2) The throwout bearing release arm must match the bearing or you cannot properly control the throwout bearing.

    (3) The throwout bearing will dictate the type of pressure plate to install on the flywheel.
    Late style without ring
    Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
    Early styles with ring
    Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen. Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
    Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

    If your pressure plate came with a centering ring (early style), you may be able to remove it and use the pressure plate with a later throwout bearing (seems to work with all diaphragm type pressure plates).
    I would NOT expect an ORIGINAL '68 pressure plate to have a removable/convertible centering ring and still work with the later style throwout bearing since the later style clutch system didn't yet exist at that time.
    And I doubt ALL centering rings are interchangeable amongst ALL pressure plates. You can see above that the 3-finger pressure plate has a different ring than the diaphragm type.



Having said all that... I've just gone through the entire thread and noticed no one posted a pic of the input shaft seal conversion kit that allows earlier transmissions to use the later style throwout bearings:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
In the upper right is the special input shaft seal with an integrated sleeve. You also need the newer style release arm (in the kit) to work with the newer style throwout bearing (also included). The only custom part in this kit is the sleeve/seal.
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PK, I just read the entire thread and never found out the secret of the Bowden Tube. (Maybe I missed it Embarassed ) What is the purpose of the Bowden Tube? What are the stmptoms that you need to adjust/replace it? And how do you adjust it?
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rather than add to this thread which is specifically about the difference between the early and late clutch parts... give these sites a read for details on the bowden tube:
http://www.vw-resource.com/bowden_tube.html
http://www.thebugshop.org/bsfqbwdn.htm
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ashman40 wrote:
After 7 pages I suppose the message gets diluted? Confused
    (1) The transmission input shaft having a sleeve (or not) will dictate which throwout (release) bearing you need to match your transmission.
    With a sleeve = later style throwout bearing
    Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
    Without a sleeve = earlier style throwout bearing
    Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

    (2) The throwout bearing release arm must match the bearing or you cannot properly control the throwout bearing.

    (3) The throwout bearing will dictate the type of pressure plate to install on the flywheel.
    Late style without ring
    Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
    Early styles with ring
    Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen. Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
    Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

    If your pressure plate came with a centering ring (early style), you may be able to remove it and use the pressure plate with a later throwout bearing (seems to work with all diaphragm type pressure plates).
    I would NOT expect an ORIGINAL '68 pressure plate to have a removable/convertible centering ring and still work with the later style throwout bearing since the later style clutch system didn't yet exist at that time.
    And I doubt ALL centering rings are interchangeable amongst ALL pressure plates. You can see above that the 3-finger pressure plate has a different ring than the diaphragm type.



Having said all that... I've just gone through the entire thread and noticed no one posted a pic of the input shaft seal conversion kit that allows earlier transmissions to use the later style throwout bearings:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
In the upper right is the special input shaft seal with an integrated sleeve. You also need the newer style release arm (in the kit) to work with the newer style throwout bearing (also included). The only custom part in this kit is the sleeve/seal.




where would you get a Sleeve/seal for this kit?
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC-113-141-181-A
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC-113-311-113-A
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