Basic Pertronix question

[andk5591]

[VDubTech]

[Randy in Maine]

Invest in a timing light and a tach/dwell/volt/ohm meter and you won't need anyone but you.

Well maybe a Bentley manual, but it will quickly pay for itself.

Plus you can test your coil with it to see if will do what it is supposed to.

[andk5591]

[VDubTech]

[Traveling Writer]

A couple of issues no one has mentioned yet for a first-time pertronix install...many people adore their pertronix and get them to work great, so I don't mean to sound like a downer or like a total moron. But from my own experiences with 2 different pertronix systems:

1) The magnetic ring that comes with the system does not want to slip right over the distributor shaft. It is way tight. I had to carve a little bit out of the inside of the magnet ring when I was doing it (both times, both were tight). After trimming a little excess out, you're supposed to seat it to the proper height with a big socket (like a sparkplug socket), and tap it gently home. You can (and people here have) crack the magnet ring doing this. Then you have to get a new one...

2) Over on the air cooled forums (and in my case) they noticed that some pertronix units had magnets installed at inexact intervals. I don't recall the consensus on this, so here's the link. http://www.itinerant-air-cooled.com/viewtopic.php?t=2818&highlight=pertronix Check with a timing light on each spark plug wire and the center too for scatter.... mine was 3 or 4 degrees out on one of the cylinders. Obviously not too good for the engine!

3) The wires of the pertronix are thick, there are 2 inside the distributor, and the grommet is tight on the inside. Meaning it may be tricky to install it so that the wires don't hang up the retard of the distributor. In other words, set it up, time it, then rev it up and watch the timing mark. In my case, for some stupid reason, I wasn't able to get it to smoothly return to idle timing; it would hang up around 20 degrees! I trimmed the grommet, funked with the wires, no dice.

So, due to points 1, 2, and 3, I still use points. One day, I shall try again, but not today....
_________________
1977 Velveeta-colored Westy named Cyril (2.0 FI Pertronix)
2004 Kawasaki KLE 500cc (makes almost as many horses as old Cyril!)
1976 Feet (they work surprisingly well)

Visit me at http://davidrozgonyi.blogspot.com !

[Glenn]

I've tested a number of Pertronix units and found the magnets being as much as +/-2 degrees off which means is #1 is -2 degrees and #3 is +2 degrees you can have #3 a net of 4 degrees too advanced which will be a major problem.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

www.DasVolks.com

[aopisa]

Writes in VW log book, "no such thing as a Basic Pertronix Question", sighs, closes log book and wanders off to drink another cup of coffee....
_________________
1977 Westy 2.0L FI

Leap into the boundless and make it your home! ---Chuang-Tzu

Please let me know if you do not receive this message...

[Wildthings]

If you bother to learn how to properly install points you certainly don't have to "dick" with them very often. I typically clean mine at about 20K miles and replace them at about 40K. I don't think that I have ever found the adjustment (or timing) to get off if the cam and wear block are properly lubed, and the pivot oiled. Keeping good spark plugs screwed into the engine is a big part of the formula. Good plugs fire at lower voltage and lower voltage across the plugs means less arcing across the points.

Running a points replacement module or any other form of electronic ignition doesn't mean that you do not have to maintain your distributor. The felt under the rotor still needs to be lubed at the original interval and every 80K so so it is best to do a disassemble and cleaning of the bearings between the plates.

[aopisa]

Just for the record:

1. I am fairly mechanically ignorant at this point, hence I have a lot of very obvious air cooled 101 questions.
2. Not just interested in 'set it and forget it'.
3. Really want to know how my bus works (including points), but at a disadvantage since geographically appear to be on my own and therefore have no point of reference when attempting a repair/upgrade.

That's my story.
_________________
1977 Westy 2.0L FI

Leap into the boundless and make it your home! ---Chuang-Tzu

Please let me know if you do not receive this message...

[Glenn]

The Pertronix or Points are a personal preference.

Pertronix
Pros:
When they work they work.
No more adjusting points
No more greasing the cam
Some say their engines are easier to start
Some say they get better MPG
Some say they get better performance

Cons:
When they fail, you're walking
Expensive
Some need the rotors to be trimmed to fit under the cap
Some have the magnets not exactly 90 degrees apart and your timing can be off
Some are affected by heat
Some are affected by low voltage

Points
Pros:
Cheap ($5-$7 a set)
When they have a problem you can usually fix it enough to get home
Proven and reliable

Cons:
They wear and need to be adjusted every 12,000-15,000 miles That's every few years for most of us.
They need to have the cam greased. Every other oil change is fine and takes 20 seconds
They're not sexy and you can't say you have an "electronic ignition".

Either will work, just carry a set of points or spare distributor if you have a Pertronix.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

www.DasVolks.com

[Traveling Writer]

[andk5591]

As far as learning - don't be afraid to try stuff - the VWs are hard to hurt. Make sure that that you have a decent manual or 2. This site is a great resource, but do some more looking around your area - there's usually a "VW underground" almost everywhere - ask around at repair shops to see if they know of anybody that works on old VWs. Usually a couple names will keep popping up.

Now here's the thing - if you find an actual shop that does work on them, you are probably going to find one of 2 things.

Someone that had worked on them a lot years ago and got sick of losing their butts and is primarily working on something else to pay the bills. They can be real nice and helpful or evasive and grumpy.

Or someone who is just doing it for fun and is probably retired or has a "hobby shop" on the side.

In either case, be nice, be polite and don't waste too much of their time unless they are inviting you to just hang out. If they are fixing anything for you - always expect to pay the going mechanic rate. You may or may not get a deal, but don't expect it just because you both love VWs. Good luck!
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D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1776. Rosie 65 bug - mostly stock and now a daily driver (put over 12,000 miles on it since 6/08 ) Woodie 69 VW woodie - long term project, body off build.

[Daverham]

Finally! Amongst all the banter, I hope you don't miss this: