82 Vanagon ?

[FrankieD]

A guy in neighborhood has a 82 Vanagon Camper. He wants $2000 for it and I thought I better get some input before I spend it on something I don’t know anything about.

The specs:
1982 Vanagon built in West Germany (data plate said 1980?)
84,xxx miles
Has pop-up that is in great condition, no tears or rips, seal needs replaced but was all there just falling off
All bedding is there with no rips
2 burner stove
LP heater
micro fridg (working)
Portable Chem Toilet
Sink with holding tank (don't know size)
Underbody LP Tank
Sun roof in front (no leaks)
All curtains there not fadeing
No rips in any seats
Had storms the night before with lots of hard rain and there was not trace of water inside so I assume there are no leaks.

The bad..
One small rust spot in rear where was hit and bumper knocked some paint off. Bumper to bad and needs replace but didn’t look as if it was hit hard, no real damage to any of the body other than the most lower right corner…
Started it up and motor made a ticking sound… valves or maybe a rod? Father-in-law was with me and said it sounded better when I drove off and put a load on the motor but at idle there is a distinct TICK TICK sound.
It has the Flat Four Aircooled… I could see oil leaking around the Valve covers and the cooling tins were pretty well coated… Oil pan was still full and he said it has sat for the past 5 months..
The oil seemed very heavy to me maybe to keep the knock down…again I don’t know much about these things maybe just needs valve adjustment.
Guy swears the Doctor he got it from had rebuilt the motor but didn’t know when or how many miles driven since..
That’s about it.. If I think of more or anyone has specific questions I can go see or call him and ask…
Thanks for your input

[mightyart]

Don't do it if you can't work on it yourself. If you can do the work yourself, drive it and see if the ticking goes way with a little time give it 1/2 hour just to be sure. If the ticking goes away and you have some time and about another $2000.00 (that's what my 81 westy has cost so far, I've done all the work no ticking when I bought it). $2000.00 is to much in that condition, unless the body and inside are pristine.

[FrankieD]

I'm not a mechanic myself but not mechanically challenged. I have a local mechanic that’s a good friend, my plan was to take it to him for a once over and get the opinion from the expert. Was thinking the Tick maybe from the heavy weight oil and it sitting for so long. I think what you were getting at with the drive it around for ½ hour was to get the oil heated and flowing… I did take it for a short drive ½ mile around the block; breaks and steering were very good. Automatic trans shifted smooth although I didn’t get it up to any speed over 30mph (I was after all in my own neighborhood).
My plan was to offer him $1500 due to the fact I will replace the tires and get it serviced (oil change and lube)
Body is very straight and almost zero rust other then the minor damaged rear-end.
Maybe I should re think or lower my offer?

[mightyart]

I think someone has caught the bug. I will say it just one more time. Don't buy the vanagon if you need a reliable car in the next couple of months. buy a beater car, and the Westy too. An aircooled engine is noisier that others but is should not have a distinct tick (like a bad valve sound). The 2.0 engine uses hydrolic lifters they use oil to work. sometimes if the engine has sat for some time the oil will drain out of the lifters and they will tick on start up. This should not last very long, depending on how long it has sat, when the engine gets use the ticking should go away. I have one valve that ticks if mine has sat for a couple of days only lasts a second or six. If it keeps ticking someting is not right in the engine, that is not a good thing and can ruin a dream quick.
offer him $1,000 you can always go higher, don't act to eager. The less you spend on it the more you can spend on parts. The aircooled Vanagon was the best choice for my needs as a camper. and when I started working on mine I was pleasently surprised by how simple and straight forward it was. If your not afraid to turn a wrench you can fix about everything yourself. I could go on and on. You have to remenber it is over 20 years old. Things are going to be wrong and are going to go wrong when you start using it. As a camper you can't beat it, and if the engine is running right, its not a bad little driver. It is underpowered, but mine keeps up.

[FrankieD]

Seems with a little Google and everyone’s input, what I am actually considering purchasing it a 1982 ASI RIVIERA a Vanagon conversion from the late 70 to mid 80's. “THE CAMPER WITH THE HEART OF A VANAGON”
I think the suggestion of offering $1000 is a good idea, although the Camper it in good conditions body and inside, I still think the motor will need a little work.
My plan is to drive it to school and maybe work (if I go back to work) but mostly short trips around town. Ideally, after having it for awhile (maybe with a rebuilt motor) I will drive it from S. IL to Central Texas for family visits. Worst case if I become homeless I will have a place to lay my head
Any more opinion? I haven't written the check yet and if anyone has input, I am much appreciated to hear it.
Thanks in Advance

[hansh]

Did you have it checked by the mechanic? I'm with Mightyart on this one. If you don't have the money, desire, and/or knowledge to completely rebuilt that engine, find out what the noise is before you buy it. It could be a number of things that'll require a steep learning curve and some know-how to fix. At the very least, a mechanic could tell you if it is driving like it should. Seriously, take it to a mechanic.

Sounds like a nice van. Let me share a story with you about my first van. It was a VERY nice condition ASI Riviera. I LOVED that van. I bought it blind, with some noises, much like you are considering. The short story is that I did have a decent budget and a little know-how, but not enough know-how to get the van running right within the means of my decent budget. I spent hours online talking to people about what the problem could be and I ended up re-ringing the pistons and replacing the heads. In hindsight, I believe the problem was in the fuel system and I ended up burning up the new heads shortly after rebuilding the engine.

Finally, I didn't have to money to try again or have someone else do it. I sold it at a loss and then watched the buyer sell it for $2500 more than I sold it for. Now, I see it is for sale again by the next owner for about $2000 more than HE bought it for. Like I said, it was a NICE ASI!!

I still regret not having been a little more cautious about that purchase and then not seeing the process through. I wish I still had that van.

BTW, the engine was a GEX......

Hans

[hansh]

Not to appear arrogant, I'll admit my next mistake........

I'm still learning the purchasing process. The van I have now, I bought in the middle of the winter and could only see it in the dark. After making damn sure the engine ran right, I bought it. Found out after driving it home that the PO had put a cheap-ass coat of paint over the entire body covering up a ridiculous amount of rust and bondo.

Hans

[FrankieD]

No haven't gotten down to my mechanic friend yet but from what you all are telling me... $1000 for the Vanagon and $1500 to $2000 on a motor rebuild and I'm at $3000... My question is: Would I pay $3000 for a 90% rust free VGC Vanagon Camper with a Rebuilt Motor? I think so... Don't see many in this condition with a rebuilt in that price range.. Or maybe I haven't looked....
Anyhow... I'm in no rush and the guy's only advertisement has been shoe polishing "FOR SALE" in the window and parking it in his driveway for the past 3mos.... He's in no hurry and I'm not likely to have someone take it from under me... If they do then must not have been my destiny...
The local VW Club is active and I should be getting one of them over to look it over first hand maybe get another view...
Anyhow... thanks for everyone's input... Keep the comments coming....Experience is the best teacher....
By the way... It looks just like the one here (Brown and Beige Camper) http://wetwesties2.tripod.com/1982_asi_brochure.html

[hansh]

If you can get it done, and done right, for $3000, then I say go for it. Just make sure that you can have a great running vehicle for that much and that you have a little for contingencies. What you don't want is to work for months trying to get it to run right, exhaust all of your funds, and still not have reliable vehicle (it happens far more often than you'd think...). My philosophy was that if I throw enough money at my van, it'd have to work right eventually. Conceptually, that is true; However, the reality is that you may not have taken a direct path through your money...

FWIW, I think you are being very smart about the matter if you take it to your mechanic AND have people from the local VW club come check it out with you. At the least, they will be able to supply you with dickering material!

Good luck. I hope the van turns out to be the right one for you. Mine was a 1981 and the level of refinement was outstanding. I really enjoyed the storage compartmen setup and the stock dual battery system (I believe it was stock at least....battery isolator).

The other thing I really like about mine was how quiet it was. I hadn't owned a Westy before it so, I didn't have the comparison yet, but after selling the ASI and getting a Westy I think that the ASIs must have been considerably better insulated at the factory. The poptop is awsome!

Hans

[mightyart]

Hans man I feel your pain. I’ve learned most of my good lessons by wanting something real bad and getting ripped off. I’ve done the rust thing twice, with age comes some wisdom thankfully. Hold off on the your local vw club for now, while it is a real good idea, you don’t want to alert them to the whereabouts of an ASI camper for sale. When I was in the army long ago, a guy told me about a 240z for sale cheap. I asked another guy who I thought was cool, if he’d give me a ride to go and look at it. When I went to find him for the ride he wasn’t around. A few hours later he was showing off his new 240z. I think the ASIs are nicer than the Westy, maybe a little heavier. I think the fact that ASIs are rare could work in your favor to get the price down, tell him parts aren’t as easy to come by as Westys. One thing you need to do quick is the poptop seal, may be hard to find. It keeps the canvas from getting wet and rotting; you don’t need to have to find one of them to. The Story Hans told about his AIS, is about the same as my Westy, except I was the lucky one to get it running right. It got a rebuilt engine in 2000, and I’m the fourth owner since, and I thank all of the POs for all of the new parts they put on, the last guy had a tranny and cv joints put in for way to much before he gave up. He also lied like a rug, when he sold it to me. All the problems that this one had were fuel injection related, and it was several things that need replaced. The break though was when I replaced all the fuel injectors. My Westy is a Texas bus, no rust, biggest dent about golfball sized, paints chipped and stuff but no bondo. One reason I got this cheaply was the A/C didn’t work, very few people will buy a car in Dallas without A/C (I guess the other nuts like me hadn’t seen it yet). The A/C is junk on these. The engine is to underpowered, to push the heavy camper and the compressor to, it will do it but it will die sooner. My A/C went in the dumpster. I would think of price like this 1000.00 for the camper, 2000,00 short block, 500.00 FI parts and hoses, 1500.00 bumper, bodywork, and surprises. This is all parts, (good quality parts, not AutoZone crap) you and your buddies are the labor. That equals $5.000 which is what you could get for one in good condition. But remember this vehicle is not losing value, with everyone that is crushed or parted out yours gets worth more. Look at what the bay window campers are going for. Ten years ago you could get one for a couple hundred bucks in decent condition. One more thing that would stop me from buying it, is rust underneath (can’t even live in it if it has holes in the floor). Get under it and poke, prod, pull, yank, whatever, just make sure you have good metal, If its flaky everywhere start to rethink. If you poke though anywhere or there are really thin spots, lots of small pinholes (you will know it) get up and run quickly and far away! Well ya don’t have to run, but the poor thing is only good for parts. Cancer on a car is about as hard to fix, as it is to cure in humans. Check it out and keep posting. Hans don’t give up! You‘ve learned a lot and still learning more, these campers aren’t crap, they’re just old and things wear out.

[crukab]

Since you asked for advice- I'd stay away from a automatic, some folks love them & swear by them........... Not me, I'd find one that was a standard..... Just my.02
_________________
'65 Bus/Panel/camper W/T/Shed
'66 Singlecab
'66 Westy
'82 Rabbit Truck
'86 Doublecab W/T
'91 Vanagon carat/wolfsbrg.Tiico
and others.

[FrankieD]

Ok here is the update,
I bought it from the guy but didn’t get the price down as much as I would have liked but I’m happy (so far LOL)
What I know and got in the deal.
81 Vanagon ASI Riviera Camper Conversion
86400 miles approximately 4k since new motor
Auto Trans
Stove (Working)
Sink with fresh water holding tank (Working)
Gas heater (Working)
All Curtains and bedding (no rips or tears)
Rear Hatch Screen
Chem Port A Potty
Vanagon Owners Manual
Warranty Maintenance Book with records from purchase 5-22-81 till 10-14-87 or 48,121 miles. All scheduled maintenance done on time by Dealer
Supplemental Camper Manual
Manuals for Stove, Refrigerator, and Radio
Envelope full of receipts for misc maintenance (batteries and tires)


The BAD:
I had to put four brand new tires ($250)
The front Stabilizer/Torsion Bar/AntiSway Bar (don’t know true name for this yet) is broke on the passenger side. I haven’t found one here in the mid west (St Louis area) yet and shipping from CA (were I know where on is) will cost a ton due to it size.
There seems to be some water leaking in around the driver’s door. A small puddle formed on the floor mat and ran down on to the step.
Passenger side CV boot has rip (ordered new one already)
Both steering boots are in bad shape ( ordered two new ones already)

I have ordered a new oil pan screen and oil filters. Going to dump the old and put I all new. The motor show obvious signs of replacement ( paint on the block looks new) and all the vacuum hoses look fairly new and are not dry or cracked as I would suspect with this vehicles age. Non the less I’m going to have the valves set, timing set, and compression check on all four.

I’ve posted some pics , take a look and tell me what you think…

WARNING THESE ARE LARGE PICS.. IF YOU ARE USING A DIAL UP CONNECTOIN…GO GET A DRINK IT WILL BE AWHILE BEFOR THEY ARE DONE

[mightyart]

very nice!, you need to go over everything, change all the fuel lines, while your waiting for parts, get a new fire extingisher, Don't let this be you: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7913898237&category=6783
Get a Bentley manual. (Vanagon Factory ,repair Manual by Robert Bentley). Look on Ebay.

[FrankieD]

That's just SAD..
Hey I bet they will have some parts I need????

I hear you on the fuel lines... got that and brake lines in the plans... too bad the bank account can't keep up the my want list...but oh well...guess I have to come out of Retirment now and go back to work so I can afford my Retirment Hobbies....

[mightyart]

I wouldn't trust anything off that one, it's all shall we say toast. When I bought mine all I wanted to do was The Interior and some small body work. So much for planning.

[hansh]

Congratulations! I hope everything goes smoothly with your new van. It is a real nice one to look at. The sunroof is nice feature that I haven't seen much. I'd say you came out well with the new engine and from the looks of the body and interior. Usually, a nice looking van is indicative of a well-maintained vehicle throughout.

Let us know when you find out about the noise it was making. Could be that your first oil change solves it.

Hans

[69doublecab]

Frankie:
I'm in Iowa; I've seen a lot of those anti-sway bar links broken off down by the lower control arm. Probably yours is the same way. You just need the link, not the whole sway bar. Early ones are cast (?) s- shaped slightly to clear things. Later ones (86 later) are straight, but seem to fit okay. I've replaced the passenger side only on my 82 diesel and it seems to work just fine.
BTW, for the rest of you, these seem to break from rusty build up around the bushing hole. If yours isn't already broken, maybe this would be a good maintenance item (even put in new bushings if you really want to get fancy). Just take it apart and clean off all the rust build up around the spacer. Painting with POR15 would be really good.
Al
69 doublecab

[FrankieD]

Hey Al,
Take a look at the photo, I may be way off on what I have discribed as the sway bar (man I need to get that manual with the pics) but you can see in the photo what I am talking about being broke.
You said I could just replace the end? I don't see how, again I'm kinda new to this stuff and learning as I go. Lots of learning ahead and that's why I'm posting here, too learn from you all, the experts.
Thanks for everyones help, input and encouragment.
FrankieD

[mightyart]

Yes you are correct that is sway bar and its just as Al above describes. The only thing holding it on is the fat bushing at the top, doesen't look real easy to get off or on.
you need to get a Bentley manual: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7912815021&category=34234
Look for an old one like this, I paid 4.00 for mine cause it only covers 80-81 models. If you buy a new one it's about 70.00 and has alot of info you don't need (it goes from 1980 -1991).

[69doublecab]

Yes, that's the piece and the end comes off. It's been a couple of months since I fixed mine, but it was a little bit of a tussle but only with my hands and maybe a Knipex (Channellocks) pliers. (no special tools!) You've got to push the link over the ridge of the rubber bushing, then the bushing can be moved. Work the new link over the lip of the bushing first and the try to get its lower end back into the hole in the lower control arm. Seems like I had to jack up the frame to get the lower control arm low enough to get the link into its hole. Of course, one could take loose both frame brackets and then the end would be pretty easy to move separate of the lower control arm.
BTW, a good welding shop could probably weld or braze the broken parts back together.
AND, go ahead and take the other side apart and chip off the rust build up. That's what broke the right side in the first place.
My 82 seems to be working just fine with one original link and one from an 86.
Al
69 doublecab, 56 pickup, 80, 82,87,91 Vanagons